MPTV Relocates Digital Channels

[wxndave]

MPTV Relocates Digital Channels

Tuesday, August 12, 2008
Several digital channels offered by Milwaukee Public Television, including its high definition simulcast of MPTV-10, will move to new locations beginning Monday, Sept. 1, at 12:01 a.m.

Viewers who receive their digital TV signal over the air will find MPTV-HD, the high definition channel, at 10.1. It will provide a simulcast of the programs on MPTV-10, one of the two analog channels operated by Milwaukee's public television station.

A digital version of MPTV-36, the other analog channel, will be available on 36.1, but it will not be high definition. Both analog stations will continue to present their regular programming until Feb. 17. On that date, television stations are required to begin broadcasting in the digital format.

"The new MPTV digital line-up is more logical," said Tom Dvorak, MPTV's Director of Broadcasting. "When everything changes in February, it will make it easier for viewers to find their favorite programs."

MPTV offers several other digital stations, including MPTV Create, which presents cooking, gardening, travel and other lifestyle programming; V-me, a Spanish language mix of education and entertainment; and MPTV World, providing public affairs coverage and documentaries.

V-me will be 36.2, MPTV World will be 36.3, and MPTV Create will be 36.4. These channels, as well as 10.1 and 36.1, also are available on some cable systems. Viewers should consult their cable guides to find the locations.
MPTV also offers two digital music channels, MPTV Classical 36.5, MPTV Jazz 36.6 and two informational channels MPTV Weather 36.7 and MPTV Traffic 36.8.

MPTV KIDS, on digital channel 10.3 and Time Warner Cable channel 552 on Time Warner Cable, will end. The same day, the weekday schedule of children's programs on MPTV-10-HD and MPTV-10 will expand to 13 hours, from 5 a.m.-6 p.m.

MPTV KIDS began as a pre-packaged service from PBS, a 24-hours children's channel. Three years ago,
PBS stopped offering that service to stations. At that time, MPTV made the decision to continue running
the channel using a back-up feed of PBS programming and repeating it every 12 hours. PBS is now eliminating that back-up feed so they can transmit more and more programs in high definition, which requires the use of greater bandwidth. Therefore, MPTV can no longer offer a 24-hour children's channel.

MPTV has been and continues to be committed to children: the new 13-hour block of children's programming, delivered in HD for the first time, is evidence of that. To review the children's lineup from 5 a.m.-6 p.m., click on TV SCHEDULES above.

Visit MPTV.org and select TV schedules for more information.
###
For more information, contact...Tom Dvorak, Director of Broadcasting, 414 297-7587

[duncantuna]

What makes no sense is putting 13 hours of kid-tv on HIGH DEF!

They have 9 non-HD channels. Currently, one of them is dedicated to MPTV-KIDS .. why not, well, continue that scheme? Do kids really need HD? Are any of those shows even filmed in HD?

Wouldn't you prioritize non-kid TV for HD?

(I'm still furious they've removed The News Hour from their HD lineup.)

[Stanley Kritzik]

What makes no sense is putting 13 hours of kid-tv on HIGH DEF!

They have 9 non-HD channels. Currently, one of them is dedicated to MPTV-KIDS .. why not, well, continue that scheme? Do kids really need HD? Are any of those shows even filmed in HD?

Wouldn't you prioritize non-kid TV for HD?

(I'm still furious they've removed The News Hour from their HD lineup.)

I looked today, and the DirecTV menu system said that 36-1 will have the News Hour in HD at 6:00 PM. Seeing is believing, of course, so we shall see. If, indeed, it is true, why didn't MPTV respond to our complaints by telling us that it would be fixed on 9/1? For that matter, why doesn't MPTV management talk to its viewers, leaving same to relatively uninformed volunteers?

Stan

[ArgMeMatey]

... the DirecTV menu system said that 36-1 will have the News Hour in HD at 6:00 PM. Seeing is believing, of course, so we shall see.


The Journal Sentinel TV Cue shows the News Hour at 6:30 PM on 36. So does the mptv online listing.

Can they broadcast HD on 36-1 while also broadcasting on 36-2 through 36-8? The news release ( http://www.mptv.org/insidemptv/news/detail.php?n=293 ) says 36-1 will not be in HD.

[Stanley Kritzik]

The Journal Sentinel TV Cue shows the News Hour at 6:30 PM on 36. So does the mptv online listing.

Can they broadcast HD on 36-1 while also broadcasting on 36-2 through 36-8? The news release ( http://www.mptv.org/insidemptv/news/detail.php?n=293 ) says 36-1 will not be in HD.

I was off by 1/2 hour. DirecTV's menu shows ML36 at 6:30 PM in analog TV and 36-1 (OTA) also at 6:30 PM in HD. This could make sense, if it were true, and we shall see this evening. I would not bet the house on it.

Stan

[duncantuna]

I'll bet a donut that the text that suggests it's on 36 "in HD" simply means that PBS films it in HD. 36-1 is gonna be an SD channel. And, of course, unless your cable/sat system has 36-1 in HD, which none do, you are again out of luck.

I suppose you could flip over to OTA .. but for most of us that means no DVR recording.

[Stanley Kritzik]

I'll bet a donut that the text that suggests it's on 36 "in HD" simply means that PBS films it in HD. 36-1 is gonna be an SD channel. And, of course, unless your cable/sat system has 36-1 in HD, which none do, you are again out of luck.

I suppose you could flip over to OTA .. but for most of us that means no DVR recording.

It's getting confusing! Here's what I've got.

First, DirecTV (D*) is not picking up 10-1 or 36-1, so they are re-broadcastin old analog stuff (ML10 & ML36).

Second, on my OTA reception, 36-1 is showing the news hour at 6:30 PM and 10:30 PM. It is being shown in "letterbox" -- full width but shortened height. To me, it looks digital, of course, and it may even be HD, but it isn't the whole thing. I think, a month or so ago, it was full-screen HD, but I don't remember. Now, digital is so much better than analog, I'm about done whining, but why MPTV doesn't go "all the way" with the News Hour is a puzzle.

Stan

[AA9VI]

THANK YOU MPTV! 36-1 comes in much better for us in the Northern Chicago 'burbs. Now just combine the traffic and weather channels into 1 subchannel.

[jkane]

I have Dish Network 722 with OTA recorder. I finally got around to rescanning for local channels this weekend. Up until now, 10.x channels had all the programming listed for what is really now on 36.x! So I removed all teh 10 and 36 channels and did the scan again. Now I only have 10.1 and 36.1-8 or how ever many it is. The channel names are right, but the guide data that used to be on 10.x did not move over to 36.x. :( All the 36 channels are now saying "digital service" like it does when it knows nothing. I gave it until today to see if it needed an over night or two to sync up. But still no joy.

I asked Dish to fix it, and the gave me the canned response about them not being responsible for guide data and to contact the network them selves. Grrr!

Do you think it would pay to contact 10/36 and see if they really have control over that?

Any other Dish people here who can verify that they also have no guide data for 36?

[troyriley]

If you're getting guide data for all the other channels, I assume you subscribe to locals through Dish. I don't, and therefore all of my OTA channels say "digital service". For you though, it sounds like either Dish Network has not updated things on their end, or MPTV has not updated the data they send to Dish. Dish's response is just what I would expect from them... "it's not our fault". I would say send MPTV a quick e-mail and I would hope you would get a better response from them. If MPTV is doing everything on their end to give Dish the updates, I would assume they would contact Dish and get the issue resolved. I'm also guessing the people MPTV would contact at Dish are "higher up" than the people Dish customers contact, and the issue would get resolved more quickly.

[cjucoder]

Guide data for my Gemstar DVRs is also very wrong for PBS. Actually, data for 36-1 and to a lesser extent 10-1 has been wrong since LAST September when they did the change removing the 3 hour delay.

At least the 10.(2-4) subchannel data was pretty accurate during the last year, but the guide thinks those still exist and has no guide for 36 subchannels. 36-1 and 10-1 are almost always wrong.

I would be willing to give them more time and latitude to get the current guide right with this big change if they had got the guide right in a timely manner after the last change A YEAR AGO. :bang: I talked about this in a thread here back then.

I wonder if this is a Gemstar or PBS or local MPTV issue?

[tbarney]

I'm not sure where the issue is, but I noticed the same thing a couple weeks ago. The 10.x channels still had program information even though the signal was not there any longer. I belive what was showing for 10.2 matched what was being played on 36.2. If that is the case, I'd blame Dish for not moving the guild information to the proper channels.

Now I wish I hadn't removed the 10.x channels from my 622, at least then I would know what was on those channels.

This was a rather quick changeover. I didn't hear much about it until it took place so I'm willing to give Dish a bit of time to straighten things out. If it isn't fixed by the beginning of next month then I'll start communicating with Dish and MPTV to see if anyone knows what they are doing (doubtful)

[troyriley]

The TV listings at zap2it.com show the listings for 36.1 through 36.8, but also show 10.1, 10.2, 10.5, 10.6, and 10.7. The listings at tv.yahoo.com are more up to date, showing 36.1 through 36.4 (no need for the music, weather, and traffic channels) and only 10.1.

[jkane]

Guide data for my Gemstar DVRs is also very wrong for PBS. Actually, data for 36-1 and to a lesser extent 10-1 has been wrong since LAST September when they did the change removing the 3 hour delay.

At least the 10.(2-4) subchannel data was pretty accurate during the last year, but the guide thinks those still exist and has no guide for 36 subchannels. 36-1 and 10-1 are almost always wrong.

If the numbering is wrong, that is because you have to manually delete what is gone now from your reciever. To get the new channel numbers, you have to re-scan for digital channels. That part is not automatic. The guide data however, has to come updated from the provider.

[cjucoder]

If the numbering is wrong, that is because you have to manually delete what is gone now from your reciever. To get the new channel numbers, you have to re-scan for digital channels. That part is not automatic. The guide data however, has to come updated from the provider.

Thanks jkane, but I was only referring to the guide data. No problem with the channels themselves.

[jkane]

I guess I read that the "guide thinks those still exist" meant that the channel numbers were still there. That was why I finally deleted them on mine. Got tired of seeing them without a signal to tune to when selected from the menu. Sorry for the confusion.

Mptv.org is dead today. I wasn't resolving the host name earlier. Now corecom has a message up for the main page saying it's a placeholder! DOH! Can't get the link for asking them about this.

[tbarney]

Any other Dish people here who can verify that they also have no guide data for 36?

I'm doing an online chat with Dish right now to at least inform them of the issue. I think I did a very good job explaing the issue and I'm being told to rescan for the channels, if that doesn't work, then reset my receiver. I don't think they get it.

[jkane]

MPTV.org is back. I went to their contact us page and left an query for them on this issue. We'll see what happens next.

[cjucoder]

I guess I read that the "guide thinks those still exist" meant that the channel numbers were still there. Oh, I see. And yes, the invalid channel numbers are still in the guide. On these Gemstar boxes the channel numbers in the guide ARE guide data. It has nothing to do with the channels your receiver scans. It decides what channels are in your guide based on the zip code you tell it you have. Doing a rescan would not affect channels in the guide.

I could delete them all together from the guide, but what I will probably do instead is remap the channels. I could assign what the guide thinks is 10-4 to 36-4 etc, and I probably will do that, but that only partially fixes the problem since the shows are still often wrong.

MPTV.org is back. I went to their contact us page and left an query for them on this issue. We'll see what happens next. Good idea! I just did the same thing.

[tbarney]

Any other Dish people here who can verify that they also have no guide data for 36?


I contacted Dish again today, this time by phone (last time by chat) to tell them they are missing guide information for 36-2 and beyond. Of course they figured it was a problem with my equipment or settings and put me through 30 minutes of reseting this and that. In the end, a big waste of my time and a bunch of minutes on their 800 line.

After all that, she ended with; "Sir, since we don't provide you those channels thorugh the dish we cannot provide you the guide information". My response was really simple and along the lines of: "Then why did I get 10-2 and 10-3 guide information a few weeks ago when you don't provide me those channels through the dish?" Of course she was stumpped at that point and said she could not help me any further.

After me pleading my case a bit more she agreed to send my case to an engineer. Yeah Right! That'll never happen. This was a call center in the phillipines. I bet I'll win the lottery before that case ever gets sent to an engineer.

[jkane]

Haven't heard from the station either yet. Was thinking a second query might be in order.

[cjucoder]

Haven't heard from the station either yet. Was thinking a second query might be in order.Ten days later and I haven't received a reply either. For a station that relies so heavily on public support it seems like bad PR to ignore questions supplied on their own contacts form.

[jkane]

I got a reply from Kevin Kukowski at 10/36 today. He is trying hard to help. Sounds like to them, the guide data they send is right. But not sure they understand the mechanism of how the guide data gets there either. They understand the provided channels, but not the OTA. Must be Magic at Dish that converts the SD feed guide into the OTA HD feed data. :rolleyes:

He suggested deleting the channels from the line up and scanning for them again. It's worth a shot again. Who knows, maybe it will wake dish up and it'll jsut recognize them again.

Sent an email back to Dish to let them know they are getting the data, and placing it on the wrong channel. Doubtful they will understand it, but it's the next step!

Gee, if this works, should we start working on 55 and their missing data? I guess that will never show up since it is not a channel provided by dish at all. I am sure it is some story like that!

[tbarney]

He suggested deleting the channels from the line up and scanning for them again. It's worth a shot again. Who knows, maybe it will wake dish up and it'll jsut recognize them again.


I've already tried removing the channels and scanning for them again. It still shows Digital Service. I'll give dish a couple more weeks to get it figured out.


Gee, if this works, should we start working on 55 and their missing data?

Dish needs to get 58-2 figured out as well. That is WMLW, but most of the time it has the same guide info as 58-1.

[cjucoder]

I got a reply from Kevin Kukowski at 10/36 today. He is trying hard to help.That is really good news. :rock: I just hope that doesn't turn into 10/36 saying "it's Dish's fault" and Dish saying "it's the station's fault".

I just sent a second request using the same "Contact Us" form and this time included a link to this thread and I mentioned it was my second request. I hope someone will try hard to help with my issue too. I hope the reason I am being ignored isn't because my problem is Gemstar guide data (as opposed to Dish Guide data which I assume is used by more people).

[cjucoder]

I just sent a second request using the same "Contact Us" form and this time included a link to this thread and I mentioned it was my second request.

I got this reply this morning:

I will forward your e-mail to the engineering department...
Thanks,


Volunteer.


The good news is that it was CC'd to Mike Behlen! I'll be sure to post back here what he says.

[jkane]

No answer from Dish other than another automated "we'll get back to you" one. But someone else from MPTV wrote me and asked for more information. She said she'd look into it. Sounded like she is a volunteer so I am trying to be nice to her and not pushy.

We'll see what happens.

[cjucoder]

The good news is that it was CC'd to Mike Behlen! I'll be sure to post back here what he says.
I received this reply this morning from Mr. Behlen:

"I will check further into the way that Gemstar receives our channel line ap data and try to get this corrected. One of my difficulties in doing this is I will need to acquire a box that can receive the data here to validate it.

I will respond to you as soon as I can on this issue."

[jkane]

There is some traction. But I was told it could take 4 weeks to get all the pieces of the puzzle in place.

[cjucoder]

On Mon. Oct.13th I received this email from Mr. Behlen:

"Update a Data Operations Supervisor from Gemstar-TV Guide International, now a part of Macrovision Solutions Corporation is checking into the issue. It may take a day or two for the correction to migrate through the system."

A week later and I have not noticed any difference, but I am still optimistic based on that email that this may finally be rectified.

[jkane]

I noticed 36.1, 36.2, and what ever one traffic is on (36.8?) had guide data this morning! Have to look tonight and see if the rest start getting data. I may do a delete and rescan to see what happens to the rest.
:D

[Stanley Kritzik]

FWIW, I can now get the News Hour in HD on 36-1 at 6:30 each evening, and it really fills the screen -- no side bars, etc. Back to being nice.

I still miss the BBC 1/2 hour program that used to be on at 6:00, so I'm picking it up in a one-hour version on the BBC's satellite channel that D* carries. It's a little less US-oriented; more world news, but it's a nice counterpoint to the News Hour which is heavily weighted toward the US.

Those two plus the 1/2 hour Business News on 36-1 takes care of my news-junkie needs.

Stan

[ArgMeMatey]

FWIW, I can now get the News Hour in HD on 36-1 at 6:30 each evening, and it really fills the screen -- no side bars, etc. Back to being nice.


I am confused.

The August news release said "A digital version of MPTV-36, the other analog channel, will be available on 36.1, but it will not be high definition."

So does this mean that you are seeing News Hour on 36-1 in standard definition stretched, or that they are further compressing 36-1, or what?

[Stanley Kritzik]

I am confused.

The August news release said "A digital version of MPTV-36, the other analog channel, will be available on 36.1, but it will not be high definition."

So does this mean that you are seeing News Hour on 36-1 in standard definition stretched, or that they are further compressing 36-1, or what?


First, it's not stretched. It does fill a rectangular screen, no distortion, no side-bars, etc. Now, because 36 is sliced up into some seven sub-channels, just how much of the bandwidth is devoted to 36-1 is beyond me.

Second, the DirecTV program guide for 36-1 at 6:30 PM M-F shows the program as HD, so the station must be sending off program information (PSIP) that specifies HD.

It looks pretty good -- a lot better than the old analog video.

Stan

[pretzelkid]

I still miss the BBC 1/2 hour program that used to be on at 6:00,
Stan

I wish they'd either move it to 10:30 or replay it at 10:30 so I
could still get my "Daily Show" fix in then watch BBC news.
It used to be perfect, local news at 5, national news at 5:30 then
BBC news at 6...

[duncantuna]

FWIW, I can now get the News Hour in HD on 36-1 at 6:30 each evening, and it really fills the screen -- no side bars, etc. Back to being nice.

Stan

Really? That's odd. I just flipped on 36-1 for the NewsHour at 6:30 .. it is NOT in HD, the program comes up as SD, and has black bars. 516 on TWC shows the same picture.

Was it only a one time thing? Are you still seeing NewsHour in HD?

[Stanley Kritzik]

Really? That's odd. I just flipped on 36-1 for the NewsHour at 6:30 .. it is NOT in HD, the program comes up as SD, and has black bars. 516 on TWC shows the same picture.

Was it only a one time thing? Are you still seeing NewsHour in HD?

Well, here's my setup, abbreviated. An OTA antenna into a SWM setup. The OTA signal goes to an AM21/HR21combo. The channel guide says "HD". I'll look again, as I have a couple of older H20 receivers. For now, the picture is nicely rectangular, no side bars, no facial stretch.

But, I'll look again and report back.

Stan

[duncantuna]

Well, here's my setup, abbreviated. An OTA antenna into a SWM setup. The OTA signal goes to an AM21/HR21combo. The channel guide says "HD". I'll look again, as I have a couple of older H20 receivers. For now, the picture is nicely rectangular, no side bars, no facial stretch.

But, I'll look again and report back.

Stan

I should have been more specific. There are black bars on the top and bottom. I think I have my TV set to stretch.

Regardless .. it's not the HD stream that fills a 16:9 picture. Not sure what that's called, when black bars are on top and bottom. 4:3 letterboxed, then stretched to 16:9?

[Stanley Kritzik]

I should have been more specific. There are black bars on the top and bottom. I think I have my TV set to stretch.

Regardless .. it's not the HD stream that fills a 16:9 picture. Not sure what that's called, when black bars are on top and bottom. 4:3 letterboxed, then stretched to 16:9?

I'll check in the next day or two.

Stan

[StarvingForHDTV]

I looked last night and it was just regular 480i as usual from channel 36.1

[Stanley Kritzik]

I'll check in the next day or two.

Stan

What confusion! I'm feeding my usual viewing through the HDMI connections (in and out) of a Sony STR-DA5200ES, and it does an up-conversion job! When I looked at the program on an H20 going directly to a flat-screen, it was 480P and letterboxed. So, the Sony up-conversion faked me out.

Now, the funny thing is that the program guide says both letterbox and HD. I'm used to the HD designation indicating a full, rectangular picture; 720P or 1080I. Maybe I don't understand all the nuances, but one thing I know for sure: stations such as 36 that slice and dice their bandwidth up are not giving us good, top-quality video. Maybe the News Hour through the Sony is "good enough", but it's pretty ordinary without the Sony's assist.

Stan