Cuprisin Live Chat!

[Tom Snyder]

No, not here...

If you're one of the few readers who read Tim Cuprisin's experimental column in the Journal then you may have read this:

If there's some burning issue in TV or radio that you just need to talk about, log on for a Friday noon Internet chat with yours truly at
[url]www.jsonline.com/chat. (http://www.jsonline.com/chat.)


Hmm ...can anyone here think of any burning issues we'd like to discuss with Tim? Of course you'll need to be one of those pioneers with an expensive PC to get it...

[Matt Heebner]

And that "experimental" Internet technology http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
I wish I could be there to chat, but I will be working. Tom, are you going to be MilwaukeeHDTV's spokesman?

Matt

[Tom Snyder]

I'll be there.

But, I'm not sure I want to "represent" the group. If you haen't noticed, I have this way of making totally inapropriate comments... It's his chat, and I'd hate to poop in his pool and get all of you guys blamed for letting me off my leash.

Anything you DON'T want me to say? http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Kevin Arnold]

Since he reads these forums here's some questions that need an answer.

1. When will the JS start listing high definition programs in their listings?

2. When can we expect some reviews of programs shown in HD so that the effect of HD on how the program is perceived can be noted.

3. How about a mention of HD sports and a listing in the sports page.

4. What will Fridays pick three lottery numbers be?


Ok so 3 out of 4 ain't bad. This seems an unusual time to do a chat. Maybe using union bits and bytes that only work 9-5. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/wink.gif

[mcq]

I would like to know... what kinda equipment he uses to watch TV, and if he does not own HDTV stuff, when does he feel that it will be important to "hop on" the pioneer bandwagon (or is it covered- wagon!?)

Why is he a jerk about HDTV?

Does he use a powerbook to do his articles.

After that, Tom you can say anything AND represent me! There is no way you are going to be more offensive than if I could be there. That is why I will not show up. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif

[ReesR]

think I should show up? Naw.....well maybe.....well why not? Should I be funny, assertive, or administrative? Hmmmmm, which goes with experimental? dang. so many questions.

So what shall I ask? Oh heck, maybe I should just lurk.

This is dumb. Now switching modes....

I think we all should just educate him and share good information to further the use of what we know is worth his and our time. The time to embrace this new way of experiencing the world is now. Tim's own company (WTMJ) certainly feels that way now ever since WISN came on the air. They are now on 24 hours a day. That certainly can no longer be considered experimental anymore can it?

So many questions, so little time.

------------------
Rees Roberts
Racine, WI
reesr@wi.net

HDTV Receiver: Sony KD-34XBR2 16X9
Bi-directional AntennaCraft VHF Yagi Model #2260P
+
2 Winegard PR9022 UHF yagi's pointing N & S
Antennas at about 30 feet
Samsung SIR-TS160 HD Directv receiver

[Kevin Arnold]

The format that will be used does not appear to be real time chat. If you go to the website you see a form to submit questions to the moderator. So any obnoxious, arrogant, impulsive, annoying, or otherwise interesting questions will be tanked. If he doesn't want to address any HDTV issues he can easily do so without anyone but us knowing. Remember, old media aren't used to this amount of feedback nor it's intensity. Their natural tendency is to hunker in the bunker.

[techboywi]

Originally posted by mcq:
Why is he a jerk about HDTV?


How exactly is he a "jerk" about HDTV? Yeah, he hasnt been as full force, gun-ho http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/wink.gif about it like you all have been. Keep in mind, being rude, or insulting to him will do little to further your cause, or make him become more pro-dtv. Yes, you have valid complaints, but, whoever represents the board there (i'll probably lurk) will need to be diplomatic in their approach.

The technology, weather you like to admit it or not is still in its infancy, yeah I know its been around since the later half of the 1990s, but never in any pratical sense, according to the stats I've seen (via 100000watts.com), there are only about 500 DTV stations on the air nationwide. <a href="http://http://100kwatts.tmi.net/tv/DTV.html">see the full list here</a>

Even if he sung the praises of DTV in every artcile he wrote, it would do little to push along the transition of DTV. There will be those who wait till the analog signals go off the air before they switch, there are those who will wait till the sets with DTV turners built in come down from there $1000+ price tags.

If the manufactures were smart, they'd start cutting those prices big time, maybe that is the shot in the arm DTV needs to start growing, thereby getting more people on the bandwagon, getting more stations on the air, etc, etc.

As I said once before, in an earlier post:
THE TRANSISTION WILL NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT!



[This message has been edited by techboywi (edited 11-08-2002).]

[ReesR]

I submitted the following to the "live chat"

-------------------
Greetings! On August 1, 2002 you wrote “This (WDJT-DT) HDNet experiment shows that high-definition TV itself is still just that: experimental.”

With ABC, CBS, HBO, HDNET, NBC, SHOWTIME, and the WB collectively transmitting over 100 hours of high definition programming per week, the super bowl being broadcast in HD in January, the cost of HD televisions continuing to go down, Monday Night Football to be broadcast in High definition next season, ESPN going High Definition and over 500 digital stations currently on the air nationally… do you still believe that just because one Milwaukee station has decided to experiment and use their viewers as digital guinea pigs (my opinion) by not following typical practices, do you still maintain that “high-definition TV itself is experimental”? And if you now do or not, when do you believe the “establishment” will finally embrace the new ATSC high definition standards instead of holding on to the 50 year old NTSC analog ones?
----------------------------------------
His Response:

A: Tim Cuprisin -- Yes, it's experimental to program providers until it makes money for them. Now, it just costs them money. Quoting big numbers doesn't make it non-experimental. After all, the busiest airport in the world is Oshkosh's Wittman Airport during the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association's annual Fly-In.


------------------
Rees Roberts
Racine, WI
reesr@wi.net

HDTV Receiver: Sony KD-34XBR2 16X9
Bi-directional AntennaCraft VHF Yagi Model #2260P
+
2 Winegard PR9022 UHF yagi's pointing N & S
Antennas at about 30 feet
Samsung SIR-TS160 HD Directv receiver

[This message has been edited by ReesR (edited 11-08-2002).]

[Tom Snyder]

The chat is off to a wonderful start... the first two questions are some pretty deatiled graphic examples of sexual fantasies, and women undressing on TV...

Geez.. I need a cold shower!

BTW... I've asked a few questions, one of which is totally off the topic of HDTV (MIlwaukee news)... we'll see if he's sandbagging us by which one he answers.

[This message has been edited by Tom Snyder (edited 11-08-2002).]

[Tom Snyder]

Not sure how I should feel his repsonse:

Q: Tom Snyder of Milwaukee HDTV -- With 4 million HDTV sets sold to date, do you know how many there are in SE Wisconsin?

A: Tim Cuprisin -- That's a question even local TV stations can't answer. There hasn't been a good market study. The best guess out there is that maybe a few hundred households have the ability to watch HDTV broadcasts. That's out of 860,000 TV households in southeast Wisconsin. Until there's a handle on the number and until that number is way more than the 200 or so who are registered members of your forum, HDTV isn't a player in the market. But relax, thanks to government mandate, it's coming. I know it's not fast enough for you and the other technical wizards at milwaukeehdtv.org, which is a great internet forum for people who are interested in signing up early for the next generation of TV.

[techboywi]

Hmm.. 100 hrs per week... 7 networks in your list, thats roughly 14 hours per network per week. A week is 168 hours, so, HD programing makes up less than 10% of their programing schedule


Yeha..I'd call that expirmental...

[techboywi]

He has a good point here:

Q: Tom Snyder of milwaukeehdtv.org -- Lots of interest from people at our site about your published views of Hi Defintion TV. If we promised to go easy on you, would you be willing to participate in a live chat on our site?

A: Tim Cuprisin -- I'd be glad to participate. But you guys have to stop making fun of my last name on your site. It makes you sound like a bunch of teenage techno-geeks.

[Kevin Arnold]

He's taking the questions and giving good answers. It would seem that the experimental argument is more about semantics than anything real. A very interesting issue is brought up about the number of HD sets in the Milwaukee market. Maybe we can help with an expansion of what we already do--set up a more formal way to "register" your set (no names please) to get an approximation of HD sets. We could even list programs we watch for some non-Nielsen ratings.

[Tom Snyder]

I told him that it was just a term of endearment.. we love him!

And he's actually half-right.. we ARE techno geeks!

[This message has been edited by Tom Snyder (edited 11-08-2002).]

[Tom Snyder]

number of HD sets in the Milwaukee market.

The problem here is that there are more people with HDTV sets that don't even know about our site than those that do, and many who do will probably never register. My guess (posted in another thread) is that there are probably 20,000 HDTV's in SE Wisconsin... that gives us about 1% participation rate here.

And about 2.3% HDTV unit penetration of the SE WI TV market

[ReesR]

Originally posted by techboywi:
Hmm.. 100 hrs per week... 7 networks in your list, thats roughly 14 hours per network per week. A week is 168 hours, so, HD programing makes up less than 10% of their programing schedule


Yeha..I'd call that expirmental...

Sheesh, that is completely unfair to compare 7 different "Weeks" worth of time to ONE individual's "Weeks" worth of time. No matter how you arrive at it, I still only have 168 hours a week minus sleep time minus other responsibilities to watch any tv. To say otherwise is to prove the old saying "there are lies and then there are statistics". To have over 100 hours a week of high definition programming gives me a huge amount of choice.

[ReesR]

Originally posted by Tom Snyder:
Not sure how I should feel his repsonse:

A: Tim Cuprisin -- That's a question even local TV stations can't answer. ......deleted......Until there's a handle on the number and until that number is way more than the 200 or so who are registered members of your forum, HDTV isn't a player in the market.

Tim's logic is flawed. The gauge of numbers should not be based on someone's ability to find this site. Heck, with that logic jsonline.com may be experimental too.

Rees

[Tom Snyder]

Hmm.. 100 hrs per week... 7 networks in your list, thats roughly 14 hours per network per week. A week is 168 hours, so, HD programing makes up less than 10% of their programing schedule


Yeha..I'd call that expirmental...

I'm an NFL fan... There are only 4 networks that broadcast NFL games. 2 networks air 7 hours per week, the other 2 do 4 hours per week. That's 18 hours per week. A week is 168 hours, so that's less than 3%!!!!

BTW... Not that really makes a difference, but what about the 168 hours of HDNet/DTV Pay Per View, and the 168 hours of Discovery HD?

[This message has been edited by Tom Snyder (edited 11-08-2002).]

[Gregg Lengling]

I resent the "teenage techno-geek" comment. I'm a proud 50 year old Electrical Engineer specializing in RF communications and I don't wear a pocket protector and don't play video games. Sheesh, and I don't speak techno-babble, just do a search of this site to see how I've laid out definitions in Layman's terms that even Tim's readers could understand.

As always,
PYSCHOLOGY: The science of inventing words for things that do not exist.

------------------
Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
HiDTV Pro 2 computer reciever card
glengling@ameritech.net

[techboywi]

Originally posted by ReesR:
Tim's logic is flawed. The gauge of numbers should not be based on someone's ability to find this site. Heck, with that logic jsonline.com may be experimental too.
Rees



Um...you're missing the point of what he said... And taking it out of context. He is implying that, as of now, the only real measure on the amount of people who have HDTV, are the number of people registered here. Unless you can tell me how many DTV sets American, Flanners, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc, sold, and how many sets are actually setup in peoples home (a actual number, not Tom's "guess" from a earlier post), then Tim's statement is correct.




[This message has been edited by techboywi (edited 11-08-2002).]

[techboywi]

Originally posted by lummox:
I resent the "teenage techno-geek"

Again...missing the point.. He said that those who made fun of his name made themselves look like "teenage techno-geeks" he did not call everyone a techno-geek.

Sheesh...how about we actually READ what people are saying before leaping to conclusions?

[StarvingForHDTV]

techboywi,

Is your real name Tim?

Starving

[ReesR]

It's amazing what people will say when they can hide behind a token name.

techboywi, are you saying that lummox, mcq, and myself are all wrong and your always right? You seem to always take the opposite view points of people on this board who are in favor of promoting HDTV. I wonder why that is. There certainly is a trend.

How about telling us who you are.

------------------
Rees Roberts
Racine, WI
reesr@wi.net

HDTV Receiver: Sony KD-34XBR2 16X9
Bi-directional AntennaCraft VHF Yagi Model #2260P
+
2 Winegard PR9022 UHF yagi's pointing N & S
Antennas at about 30 feet
Samsung SIR-TS160 HD Directv receiver

[Tom Snyder]

For those who missed it, or for those who want to relive the moment, the transcript is <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/enter/tvradio/nov02/94172.asp"> HERE</a> (Read from the bottom up to follow the actual chat)

You can just feel the love in the room! Especially in the 2 posts at the bottom of the transcript page) :0

[This message has been edited by Tom Snyder (edited 11-08-2002).]

[Joseph S]

Madison's the 97th largest market and a town with a large number of university-age radio listeners, which allows it to have a bit more diversity in radio. Milwaukee's #33, and its stations can't be as quirky.

Why not? Quirky is a whole lot better than bland, identical, and not worth listening to. I'd venture to guess that all of the top 20 markets have no problems with quirkiness. I know Boston had no problem with WAAF, WBCN, and the college stations.

His other comment about the radio hosts is true. No matter how poor a job I think Mark Reardon does at times, he is one of the best there. The other "Conservative" talk show hosts on that and the other station can't even keep their own "views" straight. One day it's personal responsibility, the next day it's the media's fault you got caught stealing, driving drunk, or punching up a prisoner.

I remember hearing one of the two hosts preaching about how holy-ier than thou the United Way(their station's charity) was compared to the Red Cross up until they were found out to be doing the same exact thing. I never heard a peep about it and haven't really listened since. They do nothing but try to rip off Rush Limbaugh and come across as total phonies. At least when I listen to the fools call into WSCR, I know they're telling me how they really feel.

My radio reception isn't the greatest, but am I missing something? There are only two AM stations in the 33rd Market? If it weren't for clear channel stations from Chicago, Atl, Boston, Pitt, etc. there wouldn't be any nighttime radio in Milwaukee outside of syndicated crap run on WTMJ and WIZZN. It's pretty sad when the best host on a station is Clark Howard. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/biggrin.gif They'ld be better off feeding the audio from Conan O'Brien's show than the junk they presently use.

The last two questions in that chat were perfect. I can't believe they made it into the transcript. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif


My husband and I saw a TV show a few nights ago where a fully clothed woman (I think she was playing a doctor or a nurse) was speaking with a male co-worker at a hospital. As she spoke, he suddenly had a vision (fantasy) of her wearing only her pink bra and bikini panties. Then the scene switched back to her fully clothed and he shaking his head at what had just happened. In another program a day or two earlier, a sitcom, a man placed his hands directly on a woman's breasts because she was complaining that they were not large enough and he wanted to "show" her that they were "just right." She then unbuttoned her blouse and revealed much of her chest (she was wearing a bra) as she again argued that her chest was inadequate. Sorry for the long letter, but one more example also from just the past week. My family and I (husband, son and I) were watching a show where the woman who seemed to be the lead character -- I think she was a lawyer or maybe even a judge -- found herself in a real hurry. She was wearing a dark, conservative pantsuit -- jacket, blouse and slacks. I was not paying real close attention, but the premise seemed to be that she needed to change her clothing quickly and get to some dressy function. So while still in her office and speaking with some man, she took off her jacket and then undid her pants and lowered them as the man watched in apparent surprise. She was wearing only her white blouse and her dark panties when she "realized" that she was undressing in front of this man. She asked him to turn his back so she could finish changing. The camera remained on him while she did so. She then asked him to zip her dress. Again, these are three examples that I happened to see just in the past week or so. I am not sure this is a problem

Me too! http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Do they need this much description? They were pulling his chain just to see if they would post it.

[techboywi]

If any of you would bother to check my profile, you would see I am not who you may think. My profile contains my name, email and website addresses.

I am not trying to take sides at all, I am more sitting on the fence, However, when someone misquotes, or take things out of context, such as you did in earlier posts, I will not be afraid to call you on it.

If you take that as "HDTV Bashing" then you really need to turn off that set for a few hours and get a life...

You refuse to believe that any other opinion other than your own could hold any merit at all, you trounce over anyone who his ideas that differ than your own. Take me for example, when I defend someone elses opinion, or defend YOU YOURSELF Mr. "ReeseR", misquoted and took out of context a comment from the chat, you twisted his words to suit your own agenda, and when I call you on it, I'm the bad guy?

That is HARDLY fair

[This message has been edited by techboywi (edited 11-09-2002).]

[techboywi]

Originally posted by StarvingForHDTV:
techboywi,

Is your real name Tim?

Starving

Read my profile.

[ReesR]

I sent Tim the following email:

Tim:

I tried to share with you during the interactive chat, on Friday November 8th that HDTV is deserving of more of a positive stand on HDTV than you have chosen to provide your reading consumers. With more than 100 hours of current programming per week to choose from I simply do not understand your position at all. Your attempts to convince your readers that HDTV is not worth the investment is only helping to hurt the process. It does nothing to encourage bringing this technology to the forefront and certainly helps to confuse the consumer. Should that be your role?

Today, I see the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) is embracing it in a very engaging way (see the article below). Why can't you? I urge you to put one in your home and see what those who have and use it on a day-to-day basis understand that you do not. It is worth it and is not experimental. What is it going to take to convince you that you may be wrong? My guess is experience. I have that HDTV experience and you simply do not. Please, before you do more harm, please get some experience of your own in the comfort of your own home and then judge it. You just might be surprised at your own conclusions.


The following link is that article from the CEA describing in even greater detail the emphasis that high definition television is receiving at the national level:
<a href="http://www.digitalbroadcasting.com/content/news/article.asp?docid=%7B38FE31BD-CA23-4A3E-AAF7-BFA8B34AF362%7D">
LINK </a>

Regards,

Rees Roberts
Racine, WI

Edited by Tom Snyder to embed link URL

Thanks Tom!

===============

He replied with this:

My role is not to be a spokesman for the Consumer Electronics Association, which is a trade organization for people who sell televisions.

--Tim Cuprisin

========================

I then attempted to mind meld with him with the following:

Tim:

You don't get it. You are certainly not there to drag down something good when you have not experienced it yourself. I merely shared with you the press release from the Consumer Electronics Association to give you additional perspective that this is bigger than you give it credit for. I certainly did not suggest that you should be a spokesman for any group. You can disagree all you want but you are merely playing into those, much like the luddites, who just did not accept anything new. Think about it.

Another reference link for you:

<a href="http://carbon.cudenver.edu/~mryder/itc_data/luddite.html">
LINK </a>

What if, for example, you were to try HDTV in the comfort of your home and then report your educational experiences? Or better yet, why not

use this period to focus on the technology to help your readers to come up to speed. Do you use a typewriter still? What did it take for you to use a computer? It is this type of resistance to change which I perceive you are propagating.

Digital television has more promise for the future of the media than anything else since the beginning of television. A bit more vision and a whole lot less grumbling about what is new would equal wisdom. We have all seen this type of negative response to new technology for hundreds of years. I am just sorry you, in your position, can't see the bigger picture. You should be able to with the resources you have at your disposal. How sad.

Rees Roberts

(Hey Tom, aren't you proud of me, I did the link too) hehe

Anyway, Mr. Crispy responded by saying something very profound:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

--Tim Cuprisin

=======================

End of interactive chat.

[This message has been edited by Tom Snyder (edited 11-10-2002 for URL link).]


[This message has been edited by ReesR (edited 11-11-2002).]

[Tom Snyder]

In that chat, Tim had these two observations:

The marketplace still has a major role to play in how this shakes out. But a couple things do have to happen: 1.) Sets capable of receiving HDTV pictures have to be readily available for less than $1,000.

They start at American for $671.00. They have them in stock.
<A href"http://www.americantv.com/elec/e_listing.html?xid=1036970635622585&cat=5018&page=1&vendor=ANY&price=6-8&subcat=5019">LINK</a>

2.) Consumers have to be able to plug them in and plug in a cable or satellite feed and immediately get HDTV pictures. That'll make it more of a reality from the consumer end.

Call Time Warner, ask for an HDTV Decoder box, plug the three jacks into the back of the above TV, and tune to the 700 range channels and voila... HDTV! HBO, Showtime and Channel 10 now, 58, 4, and 12 within a few weeks.


[This message has been edited by Tom Snyder (edited 11-10-2002).]

[beirnead]

This is off topic here and maybe we can move this thread somewhere else, but you stated that channels 58, 4 and 12 are coming to TWC within a few weeks. I knew about channel 4, but are 58 and 12 coming also?

[Tom Snyder]

In another thread here, Bev Greenberg from TWC said that 12 would be there within the next 30 days.

I misspoke on 58... but I can't beleive it will be very long. And it will probably come faster if we continue to encourage both Bev and Jim Hall from Channel 58 to get it done.

[mcq]

Originally posted by techboywi:
He has a good point here:

Q: Tom Snyder of milwaukeehdtv.org -- Lots of interest from people at our site about your published views of Hi Defintion TV. If we promised to go easy on you, would you be willing to participate in a live chat on our site?

A: Tim Cuprisin -- I'd be glad to participate. But you guys have to stop making fun of my last name on your site. It makes you sound like a bunch of teenage techno-geeks.

Tim Cuprisin - I want you to know that my reference to you as "Crispy" is two-fold. First of all, I really don't want to mispell your last name as THAT would be insulting, so I referred to you as Mr. C or "Crispy"... Easier for this teenage (I Wish!) techno-geek to remember. Secondly, my reference to you as "Crispy" is actually an endearment. This is what the James Colburn charcter was called in Sister Act 2. If you remember, his was the stodgy old bureacrat, that just coudn't get it. When the young or hip sisters and students were showing a new look, "Crispy" was the staunchest detractor. I find this charcter to be the perfect metaphor for my perception about your views on Digital television and HDTV. I apologize to you, if you thought otherwise. I will continue to reference you as Mr. C. if you don't mind (or I could use that JSTV guy!?)

To Tech-BOY-wi: Have you actually stopped at the home page to look at our mission statement??

"The purpose of the Milwaukee area HDTV Users Group is to educate, communicate and co-ordinate in order to further the use, enjoyment, quantity and quality of High Definition Television in the Milwaukee area. Whether it's over the air (OTA), or via Satellite (DirecTV or Echostar) or Cable (Time Warner Cable), you'll find it here!"

I might be the only one here who will ask this, but... What exactly are you doing here? You rarely have anything positive or intellectual to add. Either you love to get our dander up, or you are just a masochist. Please go away and come back when you share our enthusiasm about this emerging media!

Which brings me to my last point... (And I should know better than to argue with an idiot (Not you Tim!)) But I stand by my question about "Why Mr. Cuprisin is a jerk about HDTV?" Most writers/journalists, I know, are enthusiastic if not passionate about what they write. I do not see this from the JSTV writer, It's almost as if someone "sentenced" him to this topic. I can tell you that if the JS gave me the opportunity to write about TV, in general, or HDTV specifically I would salivate. I think one could be objective (although Mr Cuprisin often editorializes in his column) and yet be enthusuastic about these emerging delivery systems. I stand by my earlier comment that Mr. Cuprsin is doing damage to the acceptance and broad appeal of HDTV.

I urge you Mr. Cuprisin to get on board with this inevitable media. What must we do to win you over as an ally????? If it means being nice to you, or taking up a collection so you may enjoy an HiDTV PCI card.... I AM IN!

All seriousness aside...What kinda computer do you use Mr. Cuprisin. If you say MAC, we are going to have dance on a whole different level http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/wink.gif

Patrick K. McHugh MBA MCSE
mcq@mc-hugh.com
Sony 61HS10 (4x3!!!!)
RCA DTC100
Pioneer VSX-D710S Receiver
Infinity 5.1 (passive) Speakers

Intel 1.8ghz P4 w/ 512mb Memory
Digital Stream HiDTV Pro
ATI Radeon 8500 Dual Monitor Video
Viewsonic (Analog!) 19" monitor
ADI 17" MicroScan Panel
SB Live Platinum
Cambridge Soundworks Desktop 5.1 Speakers

I must be a real techno-geek as I have two full HDTV setups, one acting as a DVR!




[This message has been edited by mcq (edited 11-11-2002).]

[ReesR]

Hey all:

I finally had a chance to post Tim's profound replies to my emails. I edited the original post of my email to him and placed the "interactive chat via email" in the same post. Juicy and profound.

Tom:

Thanks for the html help. Groovy. (boy does that date me?)

mcq:

I bow to you.

techboywi:

I hope you read mcq's comments and take heed. We are, if nothing else, passionate about this subject and are merely responding to corporate lack of vision. (of course we aren't talking about you Tim)

------------------
Rees Roberts
Racine, WI
reesr@wi.net

HDTV Receiver: Sony KD-34XBR2 16X9
Bi-directional AntennaCraft VHF Yagi Model #2260P
+
2 Winegard PR9022 UHF yagi's pointing N & S
Antennas at about 30 feet
Samsung SIR-TS160 HD Directv receiver

[mcq]

Q: Josh of Wisconsin Rapids -- Tim, I keep hearing about the advances of Digital TV and HDTV, is there a difference?

A: Tim Cuprisin -- You need a digital TV to receive high-definition TV pictures. What's going on is a change from the way TV signals are broadcast, from the traditional analog system to digital.

Uh.... not true Tim. Please leave the Techno-geek crap to us Techno-Geeks.

You would need a digital TV TUNER to receive a digital signal. I can display an HDTV signal on my analog Viewsonic computer monitor. I can also receive AND view an HDTV signal on my ProScan 27" regular old TV. Admittedly, the HiDef signal is downconverted.

What you and alot of people on the Forum have lost sight of, is that Digital TV IS NOT HiDEF. I have been watching Digital TV ever since I installed my first DirecTV system.

Anyone who believes that their current analog TV's will become obsolete is just plain wrong! It's not the screen, it's the tuner. While it would be nice to have sub-$1000 TV's, it's MOST important to have cheap tuners. Get us the digital signal first, we can worry about HiDef later.

I watched MNF again from 34-1 (on my Proscan.) It was not in HiDEF, but it was a vast improvement over the 12 signal!

I have a friend who bought the junior version of my 61HS10--an HDTV "ready" television. Without the tuner (and yes those are currently very expensive) my friend does not even have a clue as to what he owns. He thinks that the built-in line doubler, with the bigger screen is the ultimate. He couldn't be more misguided.

HiDef is nice...nay...wonderful. But a clean digital signal is the real prize. HDTV will come. Digital TV is now.

------------------
Patrick K. McHugh MBA MCSE
mcq@mc-hugh.com
Sony 61HS10 (4x3!!!!)
RCA DTC100
Pioneer VSX-D710S Receiver
Infinity 5.1 (passive) Speakers

Intel 1.8ghz P4 w/ 512mb Memory
Digital Stream HiDTV Pro
ATI Radeon 8500 Dual Monitor Video
Viewsonic (Analog!) 19" monitor
ADI 17" MicroScan Panel
SB Live Platinum
Cambridge Soundworks Desktop 5.1 Speakers

I must be a real techno-geek as I have two full HDTV setups, one acting as a DVR!

[This message has been edited by mcq (edited 11-12-2002).]

[techboywi]

Originally posted by mcq:
Please go away and come back when you share our enthusiasm about this emerging media!

Sorry....last time I checked this was
A:A community open to anyone
B:A free country

One of my favorite sayings is, "Opinons are like a**holes, everyone has one. I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you are entitled to yours. We do not have to agree.

As for why I'm here, I am interested in this only in the technological end, by that, meaning the complete overhaul of broadcasting as we've known it for the past 50 or 60 years. This is a momumental change. I am interested in seeing how stations are going down this path. I'm sure one day, when my budget allows, I will be posing my own questions about how to optimze my reception.

Now, I am just an observer, who will interject when I feel some people are taking there passion for HDTV to a extreme.

Being passionate about a hobby or interest is good, it is not good however, when you let that passion overwhelm you, to the point where you become embittered and insulting toward those who don't share your same vision.

Right now, this is not of importance to me, I have no interest in the near term in investing in this technology. Does that negate my rights to post in this group? If so, then Tom, go ahead and delete my account right now. I did not see a disclaimer anywhere that stated that I must be passionate, or own HDTV equipment in order to post here. If I have overlooked such a statement, and I am in violation of said policies, again, you may remove my access, and I will never come here again.

Maybe I do stew the pot a little, if anything, it only fosters more debate, and I think some progress has been made because of that. I have learned alot about HDTV, even from my first days of just lurking around.

I will refrain from some of my postings, I will show a little restraint in "stiring the pot", if you (the collective group, not you personally, mcq) will restrain your more vicious, insulting comments directed at those who don't share your exact view.

P.S. For the record, I am 27, hardly a boy... The nickname, a common one I use on message boards, and online, refers to my boyish good looks http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/wink.gif

-Bob Colon
Milwaukee, WI
ATX/CoreComm Webhosting Support

[Tom Snyder]

Free Country, Open Community, free expression... all of them end with my delete key... Bwa-ha-ha-ha.. what power!!!!

However, I don't intend to abuse that power. Our policy has always been to allow spirited exchanges. Deleting posts has been limited exclusively to inaccurate information (had to do one of those this morning). Threatening or illegal posts would need to be deleted as well, but fortunately we haven't had any of those yet.

Todd, Kevin, Gregg and I will have to come to an agreement on whether we need to go further. But, like it or not (and many of us haven't liked it), Bob has had some good points. If we can keep the discussions free of name calling and personal attackes and maintain a professional and courteous level of discourse, I don't think there's a need to delete anyone's account.

[MesaV]

Originally posted by Tom Snyder:
If we can keep the discussions free of name calling and personal attackes and maintain a professional and courteous level of discourse, I don't think there's a need to delete anyone's account.



I think we have gone past that point many times already! Although, I do enjoy some friendly banter.

[mcq]

In posting our mission statement, I guess I also missed some of the point. It was clearly wrong to alienate the single largest voice in the area regarding local television. I believe that I vindicated myself in lowering the tone and extending an Olive Branch to Tim C. (Actually, I extended most of the tree.) I restate my offer to Tim, and up the ante...Tim you have a blanket and open invitation to stop by my house for the purposes of advancing the topic of HDTV. (Please call ahead as I am often not here.) Once again, please do not consider my reference to your last name as insulting, it was not. I just like easier names to remember as you can see by my handle vs. last name.

I have two regrets over my life of posting... One is using the word "jerk" in characterizing my perception of Mr. C.'s stance. I would of chosen a better word, had I taken the time. It was never my intent to impune Mr. C. just his standoffish approach to our Forums topics. Secondly, I should have known better than to engage techboywi (tbw.) My bad for getting anywhere near his sights... blam...right in the head.

I consider myself an amateur expert on the First Amendment, having studied it academically and practically. A trick people use when arguing about Free Speech is either questioning your right to it, or just shouting louder.

I oppose vehemently to the sanction of tbw or anyone who doesn't think like us (me.) We becoming smarter as we gather in all of the wisdom of all of the voices to be heard, regardless of how foolish we think that is. In the end the our cause is advanced, as true voices beging to singing in unison, diminshing the voices of those opposed. That's what a Democracy is all about...(although we are actually a republic--for a latter time.)

As tbw has declared himself a digital-free zone, I will view him as someone looking to convert (time and $$$ willing) and limit my direct responses to our mission.

As for any additional posts, I will continue to spew facts or carefully researched arguments (opionions!?) I place myself before you (a jury of my digital peers) to admonish me if I fail to live up to that. My email is all over this board, and you can reach me more directly at mcq@ultraserv.net.

Thank-You!

------------------
Patrick K. McHugh MBA MCSE
mcq@mc-hugh.com
Sony 61HS10 (4x3!!!!)
RCA DTC100
Pioneer VSX-D710S Receiver
Infinity 5.1 (passive) Speakers

Intel 1.8ghz P4 w/ 512mb Memory
Digital Stream HiDTV Pro
ATI Radeon 8500 Dual Monitor Video
Viewsonic (Analog!) 19" monitor
ADI 17" MicroScan Panel
SB Live Platinum
Cambridge Soundworks Desktop 5.1 Speakers

I must be a real techno-geek as I have two full HDTV setups, one acting as a DVR!

[This message has been edited by mcq (edited 11-12-2002).]

[mcq]

OH!!!!

You (whoever)can continue calling me a techno-geek... I do not consider that an insult. I kinda wear it as a Badge of Honor!

mcq

[Tom Snyder]

Techboywi insisted:

P.S. For the record, I am 27, hardly a boy...

Hey Bob...keep in mind the fact that some of us have kids older than you! Clouds our vision. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif

My dad used to come home from work complaining about some damn kid. I'd ask him how old this "kid" was, and he'd reply 36! http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/wink.gif

[ReesR]

Originally posted by mcq:
It was clearly wrong to alienate the single largest voice in the area regarding local television.

With regard to Tim C... Didn't he alienate us? Please stay with me. This is going to be one of those soul searching posts.

There are always going to be people in high lofty and comfortable places who will not get it. That much I am certain of. I am no spring chicken but if we are to be made to feel guilty for our true and honest feelings then we are the loosers.

With regard to techboywi... I spoke out against tbw not because he made good points but in the manner he made them. He just wanted to mess with me and others while just stirring the pot. He has all but admitted that. Therefore, I will now back off as well.

However, I was saddened to hear Patrick (mcq) feel he had mis-spoken. It is the "establishment" which will eventually come to our point of view Patrick. We should be proud knowing what we eagerly engage in today will become not only the technologic norm but will thrive with ever new evolutionary forms of what we see today. The only difference today is the speed of change. Some are able to deal with it better than others.

I see myself sometimes wanting to shout from the mountain about the insanity that has already occurred. I spent over $4000 just to get started only to find other local players dragging their feet with so many different methods. I would include in that list Ch4 for all the time they spent airing digital part time, ch 10 for their lack of follow through on their technology problems as well as their lack of organized use of high definition or multicasting, ch 6, 18 & 24 by their total lack of vision, ch 58 for their use of their virtual channel number and ch 6 & 58 for their use of low power.

One ray of broadcaster light is Ch 12. They fought city hall to try to get their antenna up to a higher height only having to put it side mounted on their tower. They came on the air 24X7 with high power. They did it right. I tip my hat to them.

The chicken and egg argument just does not play with me because in the end it is the broadcasters responsibility to create their audience not the other way around. By limiting their audience by any means merely shows how hypocritical they are. It is not our responsiblity to buy HDTV's just so the broadcaster has enough justification to broadcast programming. It is the broadcasters responsiblity to create a market which will induce us to buy into it. WISN sits alone who knows and understands this.

But having said this, HDTV technology in other communities are being totally embraced and engaged in. That has not been our experience here in the Milwaukee area. And networks have expanded their use of high definition programming to the extent that we now have a hundred hours of programming to choose from every week.

So is this experimental or is this a community which does not want to engage and embrace new technology? A generally agreed upon community which is conservative by nature. Being a community which is conservative does not make a technology experimental.

I certainly hopes Tim C reads this. He, more than likely will never respond to these viewpoints or be otherwise real about it. But Patrick, please do not feel guity about your passion. Yours at least is genuine.


------------------
Rees Roberts
Racine, WI
reesr@wi.net

HDTV Receiver: Sony KD-34XBR2 16X9
Bi-directional AntennaCraft VHF Yagi Model #2260P
+
2 Winegard PR9022 UHF yagi's pointing N & S
Antennas at about 30 feet
Samsung SIR-TS160 HD Directv receiver

[This message has been edited by ReesR (edited 11-12-2002).]