So Sad, Channel 58 Reception Issues

[sajanisch]

I am struggling to pull in CBS-58 digital (over the air) (digital 46) from up in port washington. I've got my antenna mounted about 3 stories up, ran new RG-6 coax to the tuner and yesterday finished my rotor install.

I can get 4, 10, and 12 with no problem, adjusting with the rotor gets me to the low 90's signal strength - so I know things are working in general. But I can't seem to get anything above a 9 strength from CBS.

Any advice? things to try? I didn't buy a hi-end antenna (Terk-55) but it's doing a great job for the other digital channels and pretty decent for most of the analog channels.

Anyone else in Port Washington pulling it in ok?

Any help or advice greatly appreciated

------------------
Princeton Graphics 32" Monitor
(with built in tuner/HDTV compatible)
HiDTV Pro 2 computer reciever card
Terk-55 Roof Antenna and Rotor

[JimHall]

Dear Sajanisch;

Call our station at 414-777-5800 next week and ask for me. We will see if we can assist you in determining what can be accomplished to have you receive CBS DTV.

[Gregg Lengling]

Jim once again you have jumped to the rescue of a viewer. I am very happy to have you here to help out...now if only your competitors (both OTA and Cable) would be so helpful. I still remember all the help you provided to Rees Roberts in Racine to make him able to receive your signal.

Keep up the good work.

[Tom Snyder]

Seems like I'm always hearing complaints about Terk antennas. I had a Terk in my attic (and the house was a two story), and I got better reception with a pair of amplified Rabbit Ears on top of my set on the ground floor...

[Gregg Lengling]

I'm not a lover of their antennas either....actually a good 40 or 50 dollar antenna from radio shack is great...it's built almost just like the Weingards.

[ReesR]

Here are the facts. CBS-0 (zero) has two things which are preventing you from receiving it like you would expect. First they are running relatively low power. 11,000 watts compared with one million or so watts from WTMJ-DT. Also, their antenna, while mounted relatively high on their broadcast tower, is a directional one. It is pointed west. Hence anyone to the North or South of their location and any distance away will struggle to receive them.

Much has been discussed in this forum about them to no avail. They say they can't justify the cost of the electricity to run the higher power. I say it is their responsiblity to gather viewers whether it be programming or transmitter power. Their competition (4,10 and 12) have invested in high power. Their claim that there aren't enough viewers is their victim story, in my opinion. They don't deserve to be viewed if they don't do their part to get their signal to you, IMHO.

I spent the money, like you did, to receive them and while it did work during the fall months, I do not now receive them in the winter months. This was predictable. I have taken all the analog channels off of my favorite channels and if the digital signal doesn't make it to me (in Racine) then I don't receive them.

It's a sore point for many here. But those are the facts. If you receive them then they are the good guys. If you don't then they aren't.

By the way, CBS-0 is also being hard nose with Time Warner. They are conspicuous by their absence there as well. You start to wonder what they are thinking. You would think they would want High Defintion/multicast viewers but unlike 4, 10 and 12 are not willing to invest in them even while their viewers are making the investment themselves.

By the way, I receive all Chicago digital stations except for WBBM-DT. So I can not receive CBS that direction either. Oh well. Enjoy what is left. That is my conclusion.

And Gregg, Yes Jim Hall paid to have someone come down to Racine. But that was to merely scope out the situation. I had to pay the guy $400 more to have the installer come back and spend a whole day here only to get less than reliable signals from WDJT-DT. But as I predicted, it did not continue to work as the winter months came upon us. I was wrong to expect some 5000 watts effective radiated power to be a reliable signal from any station 25 miles away when antenna radiation patterns are taken into consideration.

------------------
Rees Roberts
Racine, WI
reesr@wi.net

HDTV Receiver: Sony KD-34XBR2 16X9
Bi-directional AntennaCraft VHF Yagi Model #2260P
+
2 Winegard PR9022 UHF yagi's pointing N & S
Antennas at about 30 feet
Samsung SIR-TS160 HD Directv receiver


[This message has been edited by ReesR (edited 12-29-2002).]

[SugarRay]

Jim - I also can't receive CBS 58 in HD and I am finding that I am watching your great programming less and less. Can you have somebody stop over to Time Warner and see if you can get your signal patched thru on their system.

[MesaV]

Yeah Jim, I’m having problems receiving your signal also. Could you send someone out? Never mind I found the problem, silly me, my antenna is pointing toward Madison! http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[JohnRacine]

I live 3 miles south of Rees and also struggle to capture the signal from 1-1. I must be right on the very edge of their signal as, at times, it is watchable while at other times I cannot receive it at all. I know it's not my antenna as my Toshiba STB indicates 100 on the meter all the time for 4-1, 10-1 and 12-1. I even receive those three channels off the back of my Radio Shack roof mounted antenna even when it's pointed south to Chicago. I do hope that CBS turns up the power soon as I no longer watch analogue channels. For FOX, I watch all progamming on 32-1 out of Chicago which also gives me 100 on the meter. The widescreen format for the game yesterday was outstanding - the friends that I had over thought it was HD on my 65" TV until I showed them the PBS and Discovery HD shows off of my BUD.

[ReesR]

MesaV:

Wouldn't your expecations be to be able to receive Ch 58 digital after spending first $300 to put up an outside antenna then $400 more to "improve" the antennas just to receive ch58? And that is on top of the $4000 on the high definition television?

Why are you poking fun at those who spend good earned money, just like you did? Just be happy you happen to have Ch58's digital antenna pointed at you; unlike those of us to the north or south of them.

You would be angry too. Now fess up.

Rees

[Gregg Lengling]

Let's play nice boys.....pointing fingers doesn't solve anything. The idea of this forum is to allow the exchange of ideas. There is plenty of good information here and we don't need to pick on each other or the stations. The DTV rollout is nothing like the FCC intended originally and a lot of this is due to factors beyond anyones control. The Economy also plays a big part in it, it's a little slow right now and I can't blame the corporate decisions for running low power (the FCC allowed this so if you want to blame someone, blame the FCC).

I can't receive WITI-DT (well almost no one can) but other than a couple little ribs at them I'm not dragging them through the mud.

So let's try to make this a constructive conversation and help each other out. If you really went out and spent thousands of dollars to receive HDTV, why not spend a little more and have a reputable antenna firm give you a quote to put in an antenna system that will serve your needs...no they won't be able to give you all the stations due to propagation and power issues, but they'll help you get the most out of the free HDTV programming out there (well free if you don't count having to watch the ads).

Nuf Said.



------------------
Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
(Built in DTC100 w/Directv)
HiDTV Pro 2 computer reciever card
glengling@ameritech.net

[sajanisch]

Originally posted by lummox:
I'm not a lover of their antennas either....actually a good 40 or 50 dollar antenna from radio shack is great...it's built almost just like the Weingards.

based on previous experience I had to consider a couple of other things when purchasing the antennae from terk.

I had a radio shack antennae previously, first mounted on the roof but in the winter the arms were breaking off and dangling in the wind after some very large black birds perched on them, the 2nd one I bought is in the attic now but I never had much luck pulling in analog stations with it, my theory is that because of the aluminum siding I just am not able to get a decent picture (it's also pretty hard to mount a rotor in the attic)

the terks are nice because they are alot less noticable on the roof, mine is mounted at the rear side of the chimney, about 15 feet above the top of it, barely noticeably so asthetically it's ok with the neighbors

not that I live in a subdivision where that is restricted but it just isn't received well (no pun intended) nowadays if you have a big old radio shack antennae on the roof - so I just figured I'd be a good citizen and try the terk route.

it does pull in the other digital stations very well (mid 90's on my signal strength) and I've never had as good as a picture with the analog channels either.

[sajanisch]

Originally posted by JimHall:
Dear Sajanisch;

Call our station at 414-777-5800 next week and ask for me. We will see if we can assist you in determining what can be accomplished to have you receive CBS DTV.



thanks Jim, I will call Monday (today) and keep the forum informed as to discussion and results

[sajanisch]

Originally posted by ReesR:
MesaV:

Wouldn't your expecations be to be able to receive Ch 58 digital after spending first $300 to put up an outside antenna then $400 more to "improve" the antennas just to receive ch58? And that is on top of the $4000 on the high definition television?

Why are you poking fun at those who spend good earned money, just like you did? Just be happy you happen to have Ch58's digital antenna pointed at you; unlike those of us to the north or south of them.

You would be angry too. Now fess up.

Rees

I have to admit, I went into this exercise without ALL the information, but I kept seeing the 'broadcast in HDTV' stamp on alot of the CBS programs that I like to watch, since I had the HDTV compatible set already and have it hooked up to a pc, I went and popped for the pc tv tuner card - I didn't really expect to have to invest hundreds more in bleeding edge antennae.

I called around, and was told from more that one source (including a couple of antennae makers like wineguard) I was told that I didn't need to spend $400 on an 'HDTV antennae'

Ok, so I will call Jim, but it sounds like I am on the wrong side of the CBS tower to even have a chance at picking up their signal - is anyone from the (far) north side picking them up?

If I wanted to bite the bullet and investigate another antennae, what's my best option - keeping dollars in mind?

I saw mention someone have a 'double-bow-tie' (used) for sale on the forum...

[MesaV]

My intention was to goat CBS58, not anyone else whose having difficulty getting their signal. I have difficulty-receiving CBS58 also, that’s why I turned my antenna to the west. I’ll take what I can get and I’ll wait for the rest.
Yes, HT equipment is expensive; it took me 2 years to update my stuff. If you knew how much I spent on my HT you’d surely think I cheap out on the antenna. But it works great.

FYI:
<ul>
Madison Community Tower is 64 miles, as the crow flies, from my house.
Channel Master 4221 4 bay bow tie antenna, with hardware $35.
Mounted on my chimney 30’ above the ground.
[/list]

[AndrewP]

When CBS58 started I had 60% signal, but this signal became weaker and weaker until it disappeared in April.
So I visited Radio Shack and bought a stronger yagi antenna to replace original RS yagi. I installed it at the same attic location. Now I have 70% CBS 58!
As for the FOX - 0%.
I am in Muskego right at the border with Racine County.

Andrew
Hitachi 61,
Dish Network HD6000

[sajanisch]

Originally posted by MesaV:
My intention was to goat CBS58, not anyone else whose having difficulty getting their signal. I have difficulty-receiving CBS58 also, that’s why I turned my antenna to the west. I’ll take what I can get and I’ll wait for the rest.
Yes, HT equipment is expensive; it took me 2 years to update my stuff. If you knew how much I spent on my HT you’d surely think I cheap out on the antenna. But it works great.

FYI:
<ul>
Madison Community Tower is 64 miles, as the crow flies, from my house.
Channel Master 4221 4 bay bow tie antenna, with hardware $35.
Mounted on my chimney 30’ above the ground.
[/list]

hmmm, see it online for about $20, may just order it, it doesn't look that terrible asthetically I guess.

Anything i should be aware of (read tricky) as far as installation goes?

[MesaV]

If you’re having trouble pulling in CBS58 now, and your antenna is outside and above your roofline, I don’t think any antenna will help you out enough to warrant buying a different antenna. As I said in my post, even from the west side of Waukesha I have problems with CBS58. A weak signal is a weak signal.

[drgingras]

Originally posted by sajanisch:
hmmm, see it online for about $20, may just order it, it doesn't look that terrible asthetically I guess.

Anything i should be aware of (read tricky) as far as installation goes?

I also use the 4221. Nothing "tricky", except that this is a UHF antenna and very directional. You've got the directional issue covered with the rotor. As for the UHF issue, consider using both the 4221 and the Terk? Would require another RG6 run and an A-B switch at your receiver. Especially if one or both antennas are amplfied. See my setup:
Pictures (http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/drgingras/lst?.dir=/Antenna+%26+Dish+Setup&.view=t)
Substitute the Terk for the omnidirectional "flying saucer" in pictures. Could be a great conversational piece!
Would also suggest looking into purchasing 4221 locally from someone with a good return policy if possible. As MesaV stated, a weak signal is a weak signal. Very much YMMV when trying antennas.

Dave


------------------
I kinda thought that might happen ...

[MesaV]

I also pickup Milwaukee PBS, which is VHF, on the backside of that antenna.

[drgingras]

Originally posted by MesaV:
I also pickup Milwaukee PBS, which is VHF, on the backside of that antenna.

Yeah, someone else here said they were getting PBS-DT on this antenna. I believe it'll pull the higher numbered VHF stations without any problem. My dilemna was trying to get all the analog OTA stations for locals. Didn't work well for channels 4&6.

However, if you're not in need of lower VHF analogs, just a swap for the Terk would be a good starting point.

MesaV - are you running an amp on yours?

Dave



------------------
I kinda thought that might happen ...

[MesaV]

Nope! You?

[drgingras]

Yes - I've got the CM7775 UHF only amp.,fixed 26db gain. This antenna is used mostly for Chicago stations. The big hill between us prevents me from seeing Madison. Even after several beers, my village trustee didn't think I'd get approval for a 600' tower. Mentioned something about FAA and flight paths.

Oh yeah, and sometimes it pulls in Faux6. Sometimes. But never on Sundays. I have their rotor location programmed as 666.

Can't comment on effectivness of amp for CBS58, as I am too close to use the amp for locals at this location, and get good signal from my omnidirectional.

Dave


------------------
I kinda thought that might happen ...

[ReesR]

Originally posted by lummox:
Let's play nice boys.....pointing fingers doesn't solve anything. The idea of this forum is to allow the exchange of ideas. There is plenty of good information here and we don't need to pick on each other or the stations.


So, if I merely praise that is what you want. If I place undeniable facts on the table then I am pointing fingers? Gregg, you have shown your colors siding with the stations ever since I have been on this forum. It is NOT the only point of view.

You posted earlier and used my name without having all the facts. If you think playing nice is keeping quiet when you leave improper impressions, then I do not believe in those rules.

Someone new came on and asked about their lack of being able to receive CBS-58 and I gave them absolute truthful information. They are running low power and they have a directional antenna. The other stations have been able to do what CBS-58 says is economically unfeaseable. So, isn't is possible that you are buying into an argument given by Ch58 which just doesn't add up? Think about it.

Gregg, if you can prove to me that they can't compete like the other stations are able to then I will bow to you. Until then, please stop slanting this subject and trying to make us feel guilty to express ourselves.

Now, enuff said.


------------------
Rees Roberts
Racine, WI
reesr@wi.net

HDTV Receiver: Sony KD-34XBR2 16X9
Bi-directional AntennaCraft VHF Yagi Model #2260P
+
2 Winegard PR9022 UHF yagi's pointing N & S
Antennas at about 30 feet
Samsung SIR-TS160 HD Directv receiver

[This message has been edited by ReesR (edited 12-30-2002).]

[BrettD]

I live on the far NW side of Brew City and 1-1 is one of the better signals my Stb pulls in. I only receive it ,though, when the antenna from the TERK TV 42 omnidirectional dish-mounted rig is in use. I don't receive it via the UHF/VHF amplified RS rabbit ears.

------------------

[MesaV]

I think Gregg was aiming his remarks at me, and not you ReesR. He has already deleted one of my posts earlier this month because he thought it might ruffle some broadcasters feathers.
These local stations are owned by a corporate power that has an agenda; that is to keep the shareholders happy by keeping cost down and the profits up. That corporate entity wants to keep his/her job and they really don’t care about the consumer. It’s all about the balance sheet; it has nothing to do with emerging technology or FCC regulations. They’re always looking for a loophole that can benefit them, as in FOX 6 and their broadcasting of a High Definition Television signal. They have one but no one can receive it, yet they’re in compliance with the FCC.
This technology is going to take more time then the DVD, 5 years, to become the norm. There’s the high cost for the consumer products (TV’s, STB’s) and the baffling array of choices, cable, DBS, OTA… you get my drift.
Take what you can and wait for the rest.

[Gregg Lengling]

Rees, I'm not standing up for anyone but myself. I've found that there are more forces at work here than that of the small number of viewers (only 2 million HD Ready sets have been sold at this time in the US with probably only about 2,000 to 4,000 in SE Wisconsin with a viewing market over 1 million...you do the math). I am just say that the FCC has allowed low power to get the migration to DTV going and as the "Owners" of stations start understanding that we want to be able to "Easily" receive their programming maybe they will up the ante. However there are those that are willing to give their feeds away to people like Time Warner and Directv with the possible hopes in the future that they won't have to maintain any semblance of "Transmitter Plant" as we know it today.
(Read the editorial,,,,rather old,,,about whether the Broadcasters are hurting themselves by going low power. It's in the link below).


http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000184.html

------------------
Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
(Built in DTC100 w/Directv)
HiDTV Pro 2 computer reciever card
glengling@ameritech.net

[ReesR]

Gregg:

I am glad we are still talking about this. It needs to be fully discussed. The last paragraph of that editorial said it well:

"Bottom line: Install low power to meet the FCC deadline if there is no other alternative, but be aware of the consequences and don’t count on it to satisfy viewer’s expectations of digital television broadcasting."

The chicken and egg argument which has been used so much to argue that it didn't make economic sense to invest in high power is the issue. After doing alot of thinking about this argument I have concluded broadcast stations simply have forgotten that it is their responsibility to earn their viewers. They do not deserve their viewers simply because they have a license. They must compete in many ways.

Programming, news and production have, in the past, been the areas where they competed. But one item has been forgotten. Simply the act of getting their signal to the viewer must be seen as a function of attracting their viewer base. The other stations have taken a responsible role in this area. When I spoke with the General Manager of Channel 12 he said "we decided that we wanted to do it right" referring about going high power 24 hours a day. He knew that earning their digital viewers was important when they made the decision to do digital/high def.

So, citing old arguments which obviously are false due to the undeniable observation that 3 other stations have gone high power proves the point. It can be done. It won't put them out of business even in these low economic times. Other cities around the country prove that point as well.

So, while arguments have been raised by Ch58 management that their electric bill would be too expensive for them, why doesn't everyone buy into that argument? Why did 12 go high power out of the box? Why did 4 decide to go full time right after 12 went digital? And don't forget 10. They will soon have 36 to deal with too. They are telling me 36 will be going high power too.

I realize we sit on different sides of this issue Gregg. I am merely siding on what I see is happening with the other credible operations in this market area. It serves the market when stations run high power. If it serves the market it will also serve the shareholder. It just requires the shareholder have a vision more than 3 months ahead of their own nose (meaning their quarterly report).

------------------
Rees Roberts
Racine, WI
reesr@wi.net

HDTV Receiver: Sony KD-34XBR2 16X9
Bi-directional AntennaCraft VHF Yagi Model #2260P
+
2 Winegard PR9022 UHF yagi's pointing N & S
Antennas at about 30 feet
Samsung SIR-TS160 HD Directv receiver

[This message has been edited by ReesR (edited 12-30-2002).]