Stay calm...do NOT panic. OK, PANIC.

[Gilbert]

Hey gang,

USDTV is coming to town...we already know that. USDTV is the pay TV
service to get "scrambled" DTV channels that are available on
cable/satellite.

But...the question is: what channels will they be running on?
One thing is for sure...at least 3 channels are going to be running their
primary channel in SD and at low quality. For example, this is from the AVS
forum Las Vegas board, where a user did an analysis:

KINC-DT (16)
3.1Mbps 15-1 Univision
3.0Mbps 15-2 Telefutura
2.0Mbps 99-4 USDTV (Disney Channel)
1.7Mbps 99-5 USDTV (Toon Disney)
2.1Mbps 99-7 USDTV (Discovery Channel)
2.6Mbps 99-8 USDTV (TLC)

KVWB-DT (22)
11.4Mbps 21-1 WB HD
3.5Mbps 99-10 USDTV (Lifetime)
2.4Mbps 99-50 USDTV (Starz!)

KFBT-DT (29)
4.2Mbps 33-1 Gold 33 (independent)
1.8Mbps 99-1 USDTV (USDTV Guide)
3.7Mbps 99-2 USDTV (ESPN)
4.4Mbps 99-3 USDTV (ESPN2)
2.0Mbps 99-6 USDTV (Food Network)
2.6Mbps 99-9 USDTV (HGTV)

KBLR-DT (40)
3.3Mbps 39-1 Telemundo
2.5Mbps 99-4 USDTV (Disney Channel)
1.6Mbps 99-5 USDTV (Toon Disney)
2.8Mbps 99-7 USDTV (Discovery Channel)
2.9Mbps 99-8 USDTV (TLC)
2.4Mbps 99-11 USDTV (Lifetime Movies Network)
3.0Mbps 99-12 USDTV (Fox News Channel)

Low bandwidth and massive pixellation coming to an OTA HDTV near you
in Milwaukee!

[Mark Strube]

God no... if this starts coming to Milwaukee, get your phone dialing fingers ready!!!!!

[kevbeck122]

They already signed with Fox and Hearst Argyle (owners of WITI and WISN) back in September to carry these channels...

[Mark Strube]

When WITI is airing the FOX network, the bitrate is already pretty low, hanging around 8-12mbps... and as far as I know, it's a direct pass-thru of the video from the network... no re-encoding. I wonder what they'll do for this? And WISN already has enough problems getting their HD right all by itself, they don't need this garbage to complicate things and kill their picture quality.

What can we do? Not buy into it, for one. I'll wait and see how much it kills the PQ, and then start my calling campaign if it's unbearable.

[foxeng]

They already signed with Fox and Hearst Argyle (owners of WITI and WISN) back in September to carry these channels...

FOX has only invested money, and to my knowledge, there has been no O & O stations sign up to run USDTV.

[foxeng]

When WITI is airing the FOX network, the bitrate is already pretty low, hanging around 8-12mbps... and as far as I know, it's a direct pass-thru of the video from the network... no re-encoding. I wonder what they'll do for this? And WISN already has enough problems getting their HD right all by itself, they don't need this garbage to complicate things and kill their picture quality.

What can we do? Not buy into it, for one. I'll wait and see how much it kills the PQ, and then start my calling campaign if it's unbearable.

FOX uses a sliding window bitrate meaning that if a scene only needs 11 mbps, that is all that is used. If it needs 15 mbps, it gets 15 mbps. NASCAR routinely uses 14 to 15 mbps where a show like House will only use 11 or 12 mbps and all FOX affiliates pass through what comes from the network, there is no re-encoding at the affiliates.

[StarvingForHDTV]

You would have to think that the satellite and cable providers will sell us full bandwidth network HD channels if/when this scenario takes place. Then we can kiss the locals goodbye and let them wallow in their own crapulence.

[kjnorman]

Oh, the irony! I am enjoying getting my locals OTA these days, but if this destroys Fox6 or WISN12 picture, then going back to TWC with a Series3 Tivo will look awfully tempting...

[Joseph S]

then going back to TWC with a Series3 Tivo will look awfully tempting...
It won't be any better with TWC. TWC gets most of the HD network feeds OTA. It will be garbage at both ends.

[Stanley Kritzik]

If only we could get the network feeds from D* -- like the good old days. Still, networks aside, it's a great opportunity for D* and E* to come through with some really good HD signals.

And, speaking of signals, how do we all like (not) what 58 has done to the NCAA tournament? Can you imagine getting the NFL that way? It really shows you the power of the broadcasters to dictate to the FCC. All the public will have to sacrifice their old, square TV sets for all the new stuff to get ---- dumbed down sliced up channels which the broadcasters paid zip for.

The consumer, who is getting screwed, is a voice in the wilderness.

SK

[picopir8]

And, speaking of signals, how do we all like (not) what 58 has done to the NCAA tournament? Can you imagine getting the NFL that way?

I personally would rather watch a game I want to see in SD than watch a game I dont care about in HD... I can see putting local games in HD, but when there is no local game, they should allow us the choice to see the game we want. And actually, I would like the same for the NFL and other sports.

As for the topic at hand, doesnt reselling a frequency violate the license agreement that TV stations have with the feds?

[Mark Strube]

Choice schmoice... that's what cable/sat is for. ;)

[GBK]

If it's pay tv we would have to see how many "fools" would pay for it.. if there isn't enough.. hopefully then it shouldn't last long. I hope I speak for all when I say more choice isn't better when the "choice" is nothing more then crap.

[mhz40]

It won't be any better with TWC. TWC gets most of the HD network feeds OTA. It will be garbage at both ends.
Although I choose not to divulge specifics, I can safely say you are again disseminating demonstrably wrong information.
Work-arounds could be developed between broadcasters and TW if it necessary/desired by the two businesses when/if this much multicasting ever evolves.
I think we can all agree with cable’s stand against the broadcaster's digital must-carry fight solely based on what is being suggested here.

[Joseph S]

Although I choose not to divulge specifics, I can safely say you are again disseminating demonstrably wrong information.
Well, you can blame the local affiliates because they're telling us you get their feed OTA and only some SD feeds are transmitted via fiber. If you care to say that TWC is receiving CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, PAX, UPN, WB, PBS x 8 or 9, Religious via fiber and sending that then please go ahead. We know that's not the truth and so do you. At best the answer is FOX, PBS, + 1. What is being done versus what could be done is just another deceit.

How many years was it that CBS couldn't even get the substations transmitted via fiber so we had to suffer through the crapcast OTA and worse reception at TWC than our own receivers? Still today 2/3 of the old crapcast and 5/6 of the new even crappier crapcast is purely OTA at TWC.

TWC does not care about quality and its customers know this. If they did the pathetic analogs would have been gone years ago like they have been with Comcast and other companies. Instead, they're continuing to deteriorate and still unwatchable.

[Bebop]

If this is the trend, the only way to get uncompressed signal is getting a B.U.D.

[StarvingForHDTV]

Maybe big ugly dishes will make a comeback if local stations massively degrade our quality, and the cable and satellite companies refuse to offer us the Network HD feeds.

[Doug Mohr]

If this is the trend, the only way to get uncompressed signal is getting a B.U.D.

Unfortunatly the trend is lower quality. Watching TV on your phone, Ipod, or video game (Not HD games) is creating a profitable market for low-def.

:bang:

[picopir8]

TWC does not care about quality and its customers know this. If they did the pathetic analogs would have been gone years ago like they have been with Comcast and other companies. Instead, they're continuing to deteriorate and still unwatchable.

Personally, analog is one reason why I switched to cable. I have a cable box on my "good" tv and then all other TVs just take in the analog feed. I get most channels w/o the need to pay extra for a box. Most geeky devices such as the slingbox also have built in analog tuners but few will tune into digital channels. I would rather see analog stay around for a few more years so I can continue surviving w/o an extra 2-4 more cable boxes. Once all electronic devices support digital cable w/o the need for a freeking cable card (which costs nearly as much as renting a cable box) then I would be happy to give up cable.

However, with TWC, we are starting to get the best of both worlds. They are beginning to overlay digital channels on top of the analog channels. So if you have a cable box it will tune the digital channel, and if not you still get the analog feed.

[kevbeck122]

Cards don't cost nearly the same as boxes.. $1.75 a month for cablecard vs. $7.95 a month for a box. Eventually cablecard will be in boxes, they will continue to be built into TVs and soon computers, so they aren't going away anytime soon.

[Joseph S]

I get most channels w/o the need to pay extra for a box.
If your TV can tune CATV channels, then you get all those channels in higher quality on Comcast. In addition you get all networks in HDTV QAM, free previews, and all music channels. This is with zero box costs on all your sets.

[JohnRacine]

BUD actually stands for "Big Usefull Dish". I've had my ten footer in the backyard since 1984 - made right here in Racine. Added the HDD200 Hi Def decoder and 4DTV 4 years ago...best investment I've ever made. I love that first generation, uncompressed signal from outer space...looks great on my 65" Toshiba. The ala carte packages that are available to BUD users seem to save me a lot of money. By the way, what's rain fade?

[TAS]

I have had a 7.5 foot BUD since this summer. Just got into FTA, wild feeds, ku/c-band. Maybe the investment in a HD satellite box (4DTV) is worth the price. I was told there are also free HDTV channels i can receive: OutdoorTV, Discovery HD Theater, HBO HDTV West, PBS HDTV, NHL on OLN, plus sports that are feeds. Just the receivers are very expensive if you want the free stuff. 4DTV costs monthly.

[Mark Strube]

If your TV can tune CATV channels, then you get all those channels in higher quality on Comcast. In addition you get all networks in HDTV QAM, free previews, and all music channels. This is with zero box costs on all your sets.

I'm confused... how is any 'ol TV that can tune analog CATV going to be higher quality just because it's Comcast?

[Joseph S]

I'm confused... how is any 'ol TV that can tune analog CATV going to be higher quality just because it's Comcast?
I'm not sure, but it is. :D Much, much, much better than AT&T, Mediaone, and Continental ever was too. The analog at these sites was never as bad as TWC, but channels at the lower and upper levels had several of the quality issues I see on the upper TWC analogs that only gets worse +68. Perhaps they're using a higher freq now or have found a better means for transmission with some modulator at the poles. Either way, they get digital quality with Digital Box or built-in tuners. The music, HD channels, and additional SD channels like Weather, Nick, Disc are also available on unecrypted QAM. This is on a 1970s era network.