DTV reception

[bigcheeshead]

Ok, I've read through a lot of posts and many people seems to be very knowledgable in this field. I hope that someone out there may have an asnwer to my question.
My problem is that I just switched to the OVAL dish and I cannot get any reception on the 119 satellite although 101 satellite comes in at 100%

OK so here are the steps taken

1. Swapped the LNB's
100% on A and 0% on B.
LNB's are good.

2. Reversed the cables:
Connected A LNB to B on the switch and A on the switch to B LNB
0% on A and 100% on B
This means that the switch is good and so is the receiver since both can detect B. This also means that the satellite is pointing in the right direction.

3. Swapped the cables.
B cables go A to A and A cables go B to B
100% on A and 0% on B. Cables are good.

So basically no signal is detected from the B side on the dish. Absolutelly nothing.

Anyone have any other ideas? Thx.

[Gregg Lengling]

Okay Big Cheese Head here we go. Setting up an oval Dish is not a job for the faint hearted. There are 3 axis you have to worry about.....Elevation, Azimuth and Tilt. Your receiver should give you the basic angles to start from as the dishes have elevation and angle marked on them, the azimuth you really need a compass for. The way an oval dish is set up is to make it able to receive 2 or 3 satellites in different orbital positions. The left (from the back) lnb is for the Western Most, the right for the Eastern Most bird and the center for the center bird. I forget the site name but you can find out the transponder number for the different channels (it's listed under another discussion on this board), then with your receiver you want to shift back and forth from a transponder on one bird to a transponder on another and equalize the received signal strength.

It seems to me you may have the dish so far off the proper azimuth that you are actually receiving the wrong satellite on the wrong lnb...the lnb's are basically the same. It is also possible you have the Tilt wrong and this will also cause the same problem.

It would help if we knew what receiver you were using to try and tune this in with as I could let you know how to play with the menu's and set it up for the easiest alignment. (when I did mine I had the wife watch the TV while I was on the tower and we used the intercom feature on our cordless telephones.

Good luck.

An afterthought....why do you have 2 cables as you should have a switch on the dish that switches the lnb's per the receiver's voltage selection....I have a triple dish and run only 1 cable to it.

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Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
glengling@ameritech.net

[This message has been edited by lummox (edited 10-13-2002).]

[bigcheeshead]

Thanks for the reply. I'm a network admin and I haven't backed out of a single technical problem yet and I'm not about to start now. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif
I did find the transponder # and have been using #25 to tune on the 199 HDNET channel.
from http://richardk.digitalrice.com/transponders119.asp

My ZIP is 53051 and I've been using
Tilt 70, Elevation 36. I didnt' use the compass on Azimuth, I just moved the dish until I got the perfect reception on 101.
My receiver is Hughes Platinum E86.
The cable I've mentioned are the ones from the LNB's to the switch. There are 4 of them and that's what I was testing. I only have 1 going to the receiver.
I was moving elevation and azimuth up and down without luck. Didn't touch tilt since DTV manual states to leave it at 70 degrees.

What I don't understand is how could I have perfect reception on the right "A" side of the dish for both 101 and 119 and yet can't receive neither 101 or 119 on the left "B" side of the dish.

[Gregg Lengling]

Okay it's not going to matter which cable you use, they'll all go through the switch and route to the proper LNB. It still sounds like you have the dish about 18 degrees off and only have the lnb working because the other is aimed at nothing....the oval dishes are pretty broad but not that broad...try swinging it a long way and see if you get another peak signal, then see what the other bird looks like.


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Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
glengling@ameritech.net

[bigcheeshead]

Aaaarrgh. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe this is hardware related, even though it seems that I have tested all the components.

I've played around with Tilt and moved it between 68 and 72 degrees. DTV recommends 70

I've moved Azimuth pretty much in a circle like you've suggested still nothing.

I moved Elevation up and down by 10 degrees, Still nothing.

I think I might stop at Best Buy and get another Dish.

[Gregg Lengling]

Are you doing this yourself or do you have help....if you don't have help you could be chasing rainbows....if you need help e-mail me and I'll help...I only work am's from 8 to noon as I'm semi-retired (yeah at 49 years old)....don't want to work too much.


------------------
Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
glengling@ameritech.net

[uplinkguy]

Another question that comes to mind to me:

Are you sure you have a clear shot to both satellites? No trees or other obstructions? 18 degrees is a big chunk of sky if you have a lot of trees around. It took me a week to finally figure out where on my lot I could get both satellites. I ended up on the back corner of my detached garage. In a few years, some trees might have to go.....

A somewhat accurate tool for judging degrees is by sticking out your arm. If you stretch your thumb and pinkie in opposite directions, that equals roughly 15 degrees.

Good luck.

[shejej]

OK Bigcheesehead...
I had the same problem when I installed my oval dish the first time. Tried everything, but only one lnb would work. The four link cables came pre-prepared by RCA and I assumed they had been assembled correctly. You know what happens when you *** u me...
I looked at the inside of the connector ends and found a hair wire shorting out one of the cables. Removed hair. Wahla...pictures. Just a thought!

[shejej]

bigcheeshead...
Had a similar experience when installing oval dish the first time. Tried everything... only one lnb would work out of two. The short cables came pre-assembled by RCA and I assumed they were done properly. Forgot to never *** u me! Checked inside connectors and found one with a hair wire shorting out the cable. Check all cables to be sure they are not shorted or open. Hope this helps!


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Julian E. Jetzer Panasonic PT-56WXF95
Panasonic TU-HDS20

[bigcheeshead]

Thanks for your replies. Perhaps the tree I have is getting on the way
I have a 30 foot tree that is about 40 feet away from the dish.
When I initially mounted the dish I've noticed that B LNB was hitting the tree and A was missing it.
So I moved the dish about 3 feet over, it's mounted on a balcony.
I was shining the flashlight from the B LNB last night and I noticed that it was still hitting the tree.
I'm sorta confused since I thought I only needed to move the dish 15 degrees from the original position. However, it seems that 2 feet is not enough to get pass the tree that's 40 feet away.
I think I'm going to have to make that tree disappear tonight. The bad thing, it's on local government property.....Wonder what the penalty around here is for taking down a tree.
Thanks for the offer lummox. I might take you up on that once the tree is down and I am still unable to get a reception.
I was also thinking:
Is it possible that the switch is not properly switching between the two and only allows a signal from a single LNB to pass through regardless of what input it's connected to? Although the test that I've mentioned in step 2 should've taken care of that? I think.

[Paul Bethke]

One other suggestion...

This is a simple one, so you've probably already considred it - but if it comes down to this you could kick yourself. Double-check it if nothing else.

The E86 needs to be told that you have switched to the Oval-2 dish.

Setup/Installation/Dish(?)

Just a thought...Good Luck...Paul

[Gregg Lengling]

Boy Paul even I forgot that one...all of the receivers want you to tell them...so they can output the proper voltages to steer to the proper LNB.....OOPsss.

[bigcheeshead]

Yeah, I've checked the obvious. Wish it was that easy. Feel bad sacrificing the tree too. The tree went down yesterday but reception did not come in though http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/frown.gif

I have a friend coming over tomorrow and we're going to rotate and play with all 3 settings to see what we can get.
Personally my guess is that the switch is bad and is not capable of switching to different LNB's when the receiver requests it.

[bigcheeshead]

This has gotta be the weirdest thing. Last Friday my friend and I spent hours trying to tune 119. We've finally gave up assuming that it was the trees causing the problem. Next weekend we'll be mounting the dish on the roof.
BUT.........
I'm browsing through channels tonight and flip across 199, and OMG it comes in perfectly clear.
So I go to the signal strength and it's at nice and steady 45%. That long beep had to be the sweetest sound to my ears at that time http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif
And I thought Jay Leno was cool. Watching model competition on HDNET puts Leno to shame. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif
Could someone clarify this for me plz.
DTF only has 3 HDTV channels
HBO- 509
HDNET 199
SHOWTIME 543
I was under the impression that there were more? Thx.

[uplinkguy]

You are correct on the 3 channels. Showtime is on a third satellite however, at 110 degrees.

Are you ready to tune in that one as well?

Actually, it's not bad. By default it should be there once you correctly hook up the 3rd LNB in the middle positon on the dish and the included slitter upstream of the switch. The LNB is different than the common ones for 101 and 119. It receives transponders at higher frequencies.

Good luck.

[Tom Snyder]

You should be able to get better than a 45 signal strength. I can get a 58. It may give you good consistent picture now, but when the snow and rain comes you want to have the strongest signal you can get to avoid drop outs...

[Gregg Lengling]

You should strive to have over 70 on all lnb's to reduce the amount of washout in the rain ect. I have 85 to 95 on all 3 lnbs.

[MesaV]

Each of the lnb's points to a satellite, but there are many transponders per satellite. If you have a signal strength of 85 - 95 on each transponder, I'll pay you good money to adjust my dish.

[Gregg Lengling]

I've probably checked about 20 transponders and the lowest I've found on my dish is around 77.

[MesaV]

My oval dish has been up for about 2 years now and I have more than just a couple readings around 70. Before that, my readings were all above 80 on my round dish. I just figured it was the inaccuracy of the oval dish; trying to lineup on two different satellites. Do you have any suggestions aside from the obvious, or recommendations of a tried and true method?

[Gregg Lengling]

I have the triple lnb and it becomes very critical that you have all "3" alignments proper. Azimuth, elevation and tilt. I did it with my wife twice...she stays in the family room with a cordless phone and me with another one on the tower. The first time we got it pretty good then I went through and found the weakest transponders and did another alignment. It's just a bit of time and work..of course the biggest work was training my wife to switch transponders and look at the readings without getting lost in the screen.

[Tom Snyder]

I have the double lnb...

I'm a bit wary of mucking with all 3 alignments... When we moved, I did the install myself, being careful to make sure the new pole I mounted the dish on was prefectly plumb... that way the elevatioon and tilt was still good from the previous install, and I just had to adjust the azimuth till I got a good signal on both lnb's.

My dish is right outside a living room window, so I just remove the screen and can actually watch my signal strength on my TV myself as I'm leaning out the window and adjusting the dish... pretty cool...

[MesaV]

Been there... done that... My son-in-law, who has his own home theater, helped me using walkie-talkies. I think the real problem is the inability to fine-tune (adjust) the dish. Does anyone make a fine-tooth rack and pinion device to adjust dishes? Does anyone have a digital signal strength meter that can read both lnb’s at the same time? So many questions…

[Todd Wiedemann]

I've got a dish that has a 'fine-tuning' arm for the tilt only. Worked great. I was on the ladder 'fine-tuning' and my 9-year-old was watching the set calling the signal strength to me. She got quite the kick out if it, too. When we were at 35, I told her the goal was 100 ... she literally was jumping up and down as we went 70 ... 80, etc. I capped at about 85. It needs re-adjustment now. <sigh>

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Todd.
-------
Mitsubishi 55819
Panasonic TU-HDS20
Apex AD-600A

[KmiT]

They have Direct TV signal meters on Ebay. This ones from Channel Master.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1391720507

[Matt Heebner]

I also did my own triple LNB oval dish. It does take some adjusting....I initially had great signal strength on 101 at all transponders about mid-90's, but my 119 was only in the 60's. I tried on three seperate 2-3 hour "minor tweaking" adventures, but could not get 119 above low 70's. But....DirecTv recently (about 4 mo. ago or so) boosted signal on 119. Now the lowest I get on 119 is about 77, 101 is still mid 90's. and 110 is a solid high 80's. I really dont think I can get any better than this, and I am not even going to try anymore.
Ive read that due to the fact that we are pretty far north, this is about as good as you can hope for. Farther south and west have even higher signal strengths due to the location of the satellites.
The trick I used to maximize signal strength for all three was this:
I maximized the 101 sat. I got the highest reading I possible could. It should be in the mid 90's. I've done numerous sat. hook-ups now, and I can get a pretty good signal just by "knowing" where to point in the sky. Anyways, maximize this, and then work on the 119, but always keeping 101 relatively high. With a lot of patience, and a little luck you should be able to do it.

Matt

[MesaV]

I can buy into that Matt. I basically took the same approach, but haven't tried any minor adjustments in about a year. Maybe I'll give it a try this weekend.
Hey KmiT, thanks... Maybe the club could buy one of those things and rent it out. Twenty dollar deposit and ten bucks for the day!

[gobble]

I had the same problem and it went away after switching from the DTC100 to the E86. I think its hardware related.