More about Fox NFL..enhanced widescreen

[Gregg Lengling]

The first rule of Fight Club: You don't talk about Fight Club. But now that little fraternity of high-definition TV (TSN, 10/24/01), heretofore honing its wares quietly and privately in quest of the ultimate sports theater experience, is throwing punches in public.

Brace for Fox Sports to become as loud as a consumer electronics salesman. Fox will make NFL history within a month by televising two games per Sunday in "enhanced digital" format (cue fanfare) ... Fox Widescreen!

For the underprivileged few hundred million who haven't plunked down $,$$$ for upmarket sets and/or don't live near the 30 cities where Fox transmits digitally, telecasts will look normal. For the lucky millionsomething homes properly wired, this'll be the greatest advancement since NBC's Peacock shook its booty in full color. Imagine: The NFL, in 16:9 letterbox format, regularly showing all 22 players, with a picture twice as sharp as generated by DVDs.

Fox Widescreen debuted at Super Bowl 36; videophiles complain that it was inferior compared with previous hi-def Super Bowls on CBS and ABC because Fox Widescreen is digital, not true HDTV. Watch the fists fly!

Congress decreed only digital TVs may be sold by 2007, and telecasts must be all-digital; the method is up to broadcasters. CBS, an HDTV pioneer, uses 1,080 lines of screen resolution -- the maximum, CBS executive VP Martin Franks says. Fox Widescreen is 480 lines, same as old-fashioned analog. Pow!

Andy Setos, president of engineering for Fox, says you'll notice the difference between HD and Fox Widescreen only on $10,000 TVs. He also says lines aren't the only index of quality. Fox's system, he notes, better accommodates bells and whistles such as super slo-mos and 1st & Ten lines. But, yup, "enhanced digital" is a cheaper tactic than full-blown HDTV. CBS and ABC high-defs are underwritten by Zenith and Samsung; Fox has no sponsor yet.

Fox ducks criticism of Fox Widescreen. "Our telecasts won't be dumbed down," Setos jabs. HDTV usually has meant separate productions, with fewer cameras and no special effects -- "sharp images with 1960s production values." Fox will use dual-mode equipment, so it can simulcast to digital and analog viewers. Biff!

That rap fits Mark Cuban's HDNet satellite channel. But since February, CBS has simulcast a Final Four, a Masters and 40 hours of U.S. Open tennis in glorious HDTV. ABC president Alex Wallau forecasts HD simulcasts for the next Super Bowl and NBA Finals. NASCAR is the next frontier for Fox Widescreen, a format Setos insists will prevail: "People will judge for themselves on the totality." He'd rather fight than switch.



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Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
glengling@ameritech.net

[Joseph S]

Andy Setos, president of engineering for Fox, says you'll notice the difference between HD and Fox Widescreen only on $10,000 TVs.

Ha! I could tell the difference on less than $4,000 in TVs. I'd also get a side by side comparison to show everyone who's telling the truth and who isn't.

What is a $10,000 TV anyways? I can't even find a plasma set for over $8,000 and the highest priced one is available for $6500 at other shops. I know I have better than 20/20 vision, but this is just foolish.

[borghe]

$10,000+? DLP all the way. Although on a DLP set or projector you could definitely tell the difference. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/tongue.gif You'd have to be able to given that I can tell the difference on my $3,000 set. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Greg Oman]

Picture twice as sharp as DVD? If they're sending 480P, I thought progressive DVD was about 525?

Am I missing something here?

I'm still not convinced that the FOX implementation of DTV is anything but just a bunch of crap.

How would you like that crap served sir? Ala mode? Over Rice?

<sigh>

[mcq]

Let's say for the sake of argument that I have one of dem 10k jobbies..... I LIVE IN THE WRONG PART OF MILWAUKEE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE AT ALL......

OK, like I am not a videophile or anything, but don't I need to get the air wave do-hickeys in order to see the moving picture on tube thingy?

Who is this Faux clown talking to? The Beverly Hillbillies?

[StarvingForHDTV]

"The NFL, in 16:9 letterbox format..."

Letterbox???? Does this mean that when I finally get my new STB I will tune into Fox digital (if that's even possible) and be stuck with black bars on the top and bottom of my screen??? That would be pretty sad, to say the least.

When the local digital stations broadcast true HDTV, is it always in 16:9 format? Not letterboxed or anything? Also when the local digital channels are broadcasting regular standard definition content, is that broadcast in 16:9 mode or 4:3 mode? Is the sound usually DD 5.1 on local HD content, or is it usually digital stereo? Also during non-HD content, is the sound digital stereo there too?

I'm just wondering what to expect locally in a OTA digital sense when I get my STB. Which should hopefully be happening very soon.

Thanks in advance,

Starving

[Tom Snyder]

If your TV is 16:9, your FAUX widescreen will fill the screen with no black bars.

Local affiliates broadcasting in HDTV are 16:9. Only time there are balck bars are when they're showing a movie in its orignal aspect ratio, which sometimes adds black bars top and bottom.. but in this case, it's a good thing because you're seeing the movie as origianlly shown in theatres, and not panned and scanned.

4:3 source stuff gets upconverted to 1080i, and the 16:9 picture inlcudes balck (or in the occasional case of CBS 58, blue) bars on the sides.

I haven't gotten any 5.1 digital from the locals yet...

[StarvingForHDTV]

Thanks Tom,

That's kind of sad about the Dolby Digital 5.1 I was expecting or at least hoping that HDTV would carry not only a better picture, but better sound. I'm surprised that is not the case. Is HDNET in DD 5.1?

For the upconverted standard definition stuff OTA digital, the black or blue sidebars may effect the decision of which STB I should get. It sounds like the Samsung TS160 will not have options to stretch or zoom the sidebars away. I also heard at the AVS Forum that the Sony HD200 can do so. I suppose if I got the Samsung, I could watch the upconverted stuff in a S-Video signal and let my TV do the stretching or zooming though. How do you deal with the sidebars?

Thanks,

Starving

[Gregg Lengling]

Not everything on HDNET is 5.1 but some are. Many other programs on HBOHD, SHOWHD and regular HBO, SHOW and others do have some programming in 5.1. 1/2 of the payperviews are 5.1


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Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
glengling@ameritech.net

[StarvingForHDTV]

Gregg,

I find it hard to fathom that the Networks would go through the trouble of showing a Prime Time movie in HD and not pass through DD 5.1 audio signals with it. It's just hard for me to believe that this happens. What a disgrace!

Surely the Super Bowl will be in 5.1 no??? That was going to be my showcase event to display HDTV to my friends that don't quite "get it" yet.

Starving

[Gregg Lengling]

The response I've heard from some of the local stations are that some of the programming is available in 5.1 however they don't have the encoders on their end to feed 5.1 programming. I've done some research and I guess it depends on whose equipment they have. Some will take the data-stream right from the network and feed it through, while other configurations require recoding....go figure!


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Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
glengling@ameritech.net

[Pat]

Regarding sidebars, my preference is to view the source in it's original shape. So 4:3 material, from TV to old movies, has "black" bars on the sides. Some people fear burn-in (or reverse burn-in) from these bars, but when properly adjusted for contrast and brightness, this is not a problem. Some TVs, like mine, display gray bars in the absense of a signal, to partially mitigate any problme there would be. But I prefer black.

[Joseph S]

I haven't gotten any 5.1 digital from the locals yet...


2002 Winter Olympics Opening Ceremony on channel 4 was in DD 5.1. Unfortunately, the HD I used archive a few demo clips from it died. I lost all my CBS 58 demo loops and test signals too.

Aren't most of ABC's shows in 5.1? Hopefully, the person in charge of WIZZN's HD broadcasts doesn't prevent us from getting 5.1 and doesn't put the horrible interlocking 12 and abc bugs on the broadcast. Why doesn't ABC complain how the 12 bug overwrites the ABC bug? It's pretty distracting and neither are able to be read clearly. Do they still put it on for near the entire show? Those things are ripe for burn in on RPTVs.

My boycott has been definitely been eased with the appearance of Alias on usenet every Sunday morning before they could air them. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

No WIZN for me until HDTV broadcasting commences. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/wink.gif (Are they ever going to learn the lesson learned by the KC MLS team, and pick a new station id?)