CBS-58 & HD Net

[JimHall]

Dear HDTV Users;

We have some exciting news for local Milwaukee HDTV viewers. We have entered into a trial run with HDNet as a local outlet for some of their programming.

During the next several weeks we will rebroadcast certain portions of HD Net programming over our high definition over-the-air channel for WDJT-DT.

All CBS HDTV network programming will be broadcast by WDJT-DT. At other times, WDJT-DT will switch to certain HDNet programming that is available for an over-the-air broadcast. However, please note that most sporting events and other specific copyrighted programming may not be available for this trial test.

We are excited to be working with HDNet. And we are looking for feedback as to the quality of the transmission.

Sincerely,

Jim Hall
Station Manager CBS-58
WDJT-TV & WDJT-DT
WMLW TV-41
Telemundo 63




[This message has been edited by JimHall (edited 07-26-2002).]

[Todd Wiedemann]

Jim -

Let me be the first, from this group, to congratulate and applaud this strategic allience.

By aligning with Mark Cuban you've demonstrated your commitment to advancing the amount of HD programming in Milwaukee.

Thank you.

[Joseph S]

This is fantastic news!!!!

Thanks. Will there be an increase in power considering the current use of simulcasting?? Is Telemundo being dumped because of the NBC purchase? Is the Hawaiiantropic Bikini contest copyrighted? http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[kjnorman]

I'm depressed! Still no WDJT-DT on Time Warner Cable. I remain stuck in the SDTV wastelands....

Well good luck with the testing. It will b interesting to see how it develops.

Kerry.

PS. Are we any closer to a CBS58 & TWC annoucement??

[Matt Heebner]

This is a VERY excellent thing for sure. I know Cuban wanted to be able to lease out HDNet(s) to broadcast stations who didnt have enough HD programming to fill all the available time. Looks like that is exactly what is happening. I also know that Cuban is starting up atleast two more HDNets in the very near future....I wonder if maybe our local CBS is going to pick up a HDNet that won't be on DirecTv ??

Anyways, I look forward to seeing this. Great job Jim!

Matt

[Kevin Arnold]

Good news indeed! By the way, Jim, is there any way to reactivate the HD specific schedule for 46? Especially since there will now be differences between 58 and 46. And a hearty thanks for pressing on with HD specific programming. It is appreciated.

[Tom Sielicki]

Ok I am turning my antenna back to Milwaukee. Just when you think HD really sucks in Milwaukee and Madison was only hope for OTA HD, Jim Hall comes through with a big plan. Way to go Jim. There are leaders (not only do what is required but come up with new ideas) and there are followers. (Also complete Losers like WISN and FOX 6). You are leader.
Thanks

[RobbQ]

Wow Jim, that is really impressive. You have my whole hearted appreciation. I am a dishnetwork customer who will be very grateful to see this programming. Please clue me in if there is anything that I/we can do for you and CBS-58. I will be more than happy to write some positive letters to sponsors, call journalists and tell them how happy I am with CBS-58, wash your car...

[Joseph S]

I guess there's no copyright issue here. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif

Coming in just fine here. Thanks, Jim and Mark Cuban.

Can you broadcast Alias reruns for us after hours seeing as ABC has no interest in it?



[This message has been edited by Joseph S (edited 07-26-2002).]

[borghe]

I guess here would be as good a thread as any to ask some questions. First let me say Jim that 4 and 58 have really done an outstanding job when it comes to serving your market, especially 58 being that CBS has such a large amount of HD material (sorry Sean.. maybe you can yell at NBC for us.. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif)

Anyway, enough of the kssing up. My question has to do with multi-casting. Especially now that you are multi-casting HDNet. Are your signals from either CBS or HDNet recompressed to allow for multi-casting of 41 and 63? I have noticed that both of those channels are heavily compressed and was just wondering if that allowed for the full bitrate of the appropriate network feeds on 1-1.

Btw, congratulations on HDNet. As I said earlier, it shows you guys are really commited to bring the future of television into Milwaukee.

So, any chance you've heard of CBS multi-casting multiple SD NFL games this year being that there won't be any HD ones? One can dream... http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Joseph S]

Constructive Criticism mode:

The concert shown last night really seemed to stress the system. Whenever the center camera was used and the stage was flashed with white lights there were problems with pixelation. When the center or side cams focused on a someone making movement with their hand or body there were artifacts in the line of motion.

On both the concert and the aerial show that followed there were about 7 audio dropouts and 1 videodrop which occured as the camera panned to my left on a landscape shot.

My signal strength ranged from 68-71.

Good luck. This is a great service you are bringing us. Thanks.

[John Polulach]

Just watched a bit of fly fishing and tango dancing on HDnet/CBS 58. Not my standard fare but a good HD picture, even with lots of ambient light in my living room. Thank you 58 and Jim Hall!

This sort of reminds me of when UHF was first introduced in the early 60's (if my memory serves me right). I was growing up in Chicago and there was only one channel and about the only thing they broadcast was bull fights from Mexico in b&w on Saturday nights. But I watched because it was VERY cool getting a new (6th) channel, from a new little box on top of the TV with a little round antenna...plus I never had seen bull fights before.

JP

[Greg Oman]

Jim,

Thanks for the tip. I saw this at work and thought, well, how do I know what's on, or when you're testing?

So I tuned in tonight about 5:45 and you were on. I had a guy from work stopping over. After picking up his jaw (yet again), it's just extremely helpful to have content.

I applaud you and CBS-58 for taking this step. You're running the transmitter anyway, use it to it's potential.

I know it's a test, I know it may not last, but thank you. And thanks for switching back to the CBS monday night HD lineup (even though reruns), my wife enjoys those as do I. Monday nights are arguably the best night, with content from 7-9 on CBS, and 9-10 on NBC, followed by Leno.

Greg O.

[Rafiki]

Greg,

I have two sources to find the schedule for HDNET:
www.hdtvgalaxy.com/broad.html (http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com/broad.html)
www.hd.net (http://www.hd.net)

58 is giving us the live feed from HDNET. I have found hd on 58 all day long.

By the way, Jim, your picture is almost the quality of the satelite and thanks for caring about local viewers.

Michael

[borghe]

Jim,

While reading the Tim Cuprisin article I noticed that the compression rates for 58 were given. Do you have any official comment on what 58's future plans are as far as recompression and multi-casting?

[John Brundage]

Watched a little bit of HD-Net last night. Excellent. Hope the trial run turns into a permanent partnership

[Tom Snyder]

Sigh...

Let me say that I applaud 58's carrying of HDNet during non-HD-CBS hours. Anything to increase the amount of HD available on local channels is pretty sweet.

It sure will be great when Letterman is on in HDTV on CBS, but in the meantime, upconverted SD has been enough to get my to switch from that jut-chinned Jay Lame-o.

While I sure am happy for those of you who don't have DirecTV to have access to the cool stuff on HDNet, it sure is a bummer at 10:30 for me to have two HDNets but just analog Letterman.

[JimHall]

Originally posted by borghe:
Jim,

While reading the Tim Cuprisin article I noticed that the compression rates for 58 were given. Do you have any official comment on what 58's future plans are as far as recompression and multi-casting?

The plans for our DTV signal will include both HDTV transmission and multicasting. We are currently in the very early stages (its really live beta site testing) for data bandwidth compression equipment. Since we started broadcasting in DTV last March, there have been at least three upgrades that I know about in compression equipment that we are using. Also, we are just starting to experiment more with statistical bandwidth rates for our multicasting. Our view is that for our industry, (broadcasting) stations will be looking to increase shelf space, much in the same way that cable has been able to add more channels with its digital deployment through the use of fiber. And while certain programs may or will require more bandwidth (i.e.; Sports) the majority of programming will not require the full bandwidth to deliver a high quality HDTV 16x9 picture to the home. I know some of you will disagree with me, but I believe that as time goes on the compression and data schemes will improve and at a certain point the human eye cannot detect any further improvements.

Jim Hall

[borghe]

I won't lie to you in that I am one of those compression zealots. I would love to see all DVDs compressed at a 10Mbps, broadcast HDTV at 19.4, and pre-recorded HD at 28.2Mbps, all CBR, That being said... http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif

Your CBS signal looks very good. I won't say great for the simple reason that I have no reference to compare it to, but at this point I certainly have nothing to complain about. I am glad to hear you say that sports will probably be a different story, because it probably will be. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif I still stand by my opinion that the HDNet signal's colors look a little muted, but Tom has said that this has more to do with how you obtain and condition the signal than recompression of it. I would be interested in knowing more about this.

Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161893) is a thread on AVSForum where Tom and I posted regarding another member who's local station is doing the exact same thing. Another CBS station employee chimed in a gave us a little more technical detail. Sorry about my unavoidable evil comment. Just my fanatacism kicking in. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif

Two questions for you Jim. First is the comment the original poster made about the CBS approved 14Mbps. Is this correct? Does CBS place any such requirements on you? Second isn't really a question but an open invitation. I'm sure that all of the other tech geeks here would agree when I say we would certainly be interested in the basics of the compression and transmission hardware you guys are using. In particular when you meantion upgrading three times, even a general summary would be cool.

Ok zealot hat off. I have to admit that I'm taking a guilty pleasure in some of your multi-casting. In particular thank you for channel 41 and its monster movies. I am a HUGE fan of these old movies and they are really unavailable anywhere else except for around Halloween. I'm not ashamed to say that when most of you were watching HDTV last night, I was watching Plan 9 From Outer Space on 58.2 and see 3 more nights of excellent movies coming up, inlcuding a Godzilla one. Even with the super compressed signal it still looks/sounds better than what I can normally get 41 at.

We say it on this board all of the time, but I'll say it one more time. You guys are doing a great job over there. If it makes sense to use this board as a cross section, you are gaining viewers as a result of your actions. I'm not just talking about these board members. In going to Flanner's and American and even Best Buy, CBS 58 gets a lot of "free" promotion when it comes to HDTV. The community recognizes what you and the rest of the local DTV stations are doing. Thank you.

[Tom Snyder]

I have DirecTV so I do have a refernce to compare it to. In my opinion, the picture quality of CBS HD compares favorably to HBO HD.. . on film transfers, I can't see the difference.

While I do see difference between the DirecTV HDNet and the CBS58 HDNet, I understand that because of the conversions necesaary to make HDNet OTA broadcast-ready there is some picture degradation.. but if I didn't have that comparaison available, I bet I'd be perfectly fine with it.

[borghe]

Oops.. By not having a reference to compare it to I was referring to another CBS-HD signal. I feel that comparing CBS-HD to HBO or Showtime is apples to oranges simply because now you are taking the individual HD transfers into consideration. I would need to see a 19.4Mbps CBS broadcast vs. a 14Mbps CBS broadcast to make any sort of comparison. Though I'm certainly not going to critcize the 14Mbps broadcast because it looks terrific and I don't have a higher bitrate signal to compare it to. I do know that when you start getting into the better compression algorithm's you start seeing dramatic bandwidth decreases, so I guess we'll just wait and see what the future holds.

[gparris]

Not to complain either but is Monday Night Football this fall to be on ABC (thought it was FOX) and if so- could HD NET carry it? In addition, does WISN or the Madison ABC station that has HD now, carry it and will it be in HD as an ABC HD broadcast?

[ugyvel]

I'm a little confused on CBS HD net. I'm going to be hooking up my new Samsung T150 tonite and will want obviously to view all the HDTV options. Titan TV doesn't show HD Net at all for CBS 58 although I recall reading that it wouldn't. I also know that it is not shown during prime time. Do I just tune in 58-1 to see it during non-prime time hours? Thanks

[Matt Heebner]

I believe that CBS is re-broadcasting HDNet when CBS has no major programming on, or HD programming on. I do not know how long they are planning this joint venture.
I would try tuning in before 7 pm and see if HDnet is on.
Again...hats off to CBS and Jim Hall for being the "point man" of HD in Milwaukee.

Matt

[Tom Snyder]

Oops.. By not having a reference to compare it to I was referring to another CBS-HD signal.

OH.. I see what you mean.. sorry. http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Tom Snyder (edited 08-14-2002).]

[Greg Oman]

gpharris-- No, MNF is not likely going to be in HD at all. And you would need to get it from Madison as WISN here is, well, tardy to say the least.

If you have not been to the AVS forum, check it out. www.avsforum.com (http://www.avsforum.com)

Here's a link to get you started:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=7dd13999c614448a954babca762b908b&threadid=157875&highlight=Monday

Greg O.