DirecTV distribution system question

[JonC]

I'm on the verge of making the HDTV plunge. I'm currently a DirecTV subscriber with 3 receivers, 2 of which are DirecTivo boxes. I currently have a single Dual-LNB on an 18" round dish. The two LNBs are run into a 2x4 distribution box (2 inputs, 4 outputs).

I am planning on purchasing the Samsung 160 for my STB. This will be my fourth receiver.

For those that don't know, the DirecTivo boxes have inputs for 2 satellite feeds. One of my boxes is set up this way. Due to my constraint of only having 4 outputs, the other is setup for only one satellite feed.

My assumptions:
1) I will need to switch my current 18" dish to either 1) an 18x24 dish, with 3 Dual LNBs, or 2) a series of 3 dishes, each with its own Dual LNB.
2) I will need a new distribution box. This box will need to handle 6 inputs and a total of 6 outputs (remember, each DirecTivo can handle two satellite inputs - 2 boxes with 2 satellite feeds each, 2 boxes with 1 satellite fead each).

Now for the questions:
1) Are my assumptions correct?

2) If so, where can I find in this area the distribution box I'm looking for and what is the approximate cost?

3) Does the 18x24 dish come with 3 Dual LNBs? I talked to someone at Best Buy that 'thought' the 18x24 only came with two.

Thanks in advance for the answers!

Jon

[Gregg Lengling]

Jon here is what I'd do, just to make it simple why not leave the old dish up doing what it is doing and add the oval dish. I bought my Terks Oval at Circuit City and you are right it comes with only 2 LNB's, the 3 LNB is a different voltage for the bird with Showtime so you have to make sure you get the right one. The Terks dish has a multiswitch built into the LNB boom and the LNB plug right in...no screwing on cables ect. and then there are 4 outputs from the dish...so between the new dish and the old dish you'd have everything. Other-wise if you replace the old dish with a new one, you'll only have 4 outputs......

If you have both dishes then you can use the old one for the Tivo units that require 2 leads and use one of the extra leads from the new dish for the 3rd box....and the new HD box.

Also be apprised it is a little harder to align an Oval dish..there are 3 settings, Azimuth, Elevation and Tilt.....When I align mine (it's on a tower up 40'), I grab one of my Panasonic cordless phones with speakerphone built in and use it to talk to my wife in the media room as she tells me what the signals are doing. That way I am hands free to have 2 hands to do the adjusting. Took me maybe 10 minutes to do the alignment that way and the worst signal I have on any Transponder is around 82.

[JonC]

Gregg:

I'm really liking this forum! Immediate gratification... what a concept!

I'm pretty sure I get the concept: Dish 1 will serve two receivers (let's say it's the two DirecTivos). Dish 2 will serve the ST160 and an older RCA receiver.

Let me just re-state this so I'm clear in my mind: I don't need the 3 Dual LNB unless I want to add access to a 3rd bird that has only Showtime at this time (and if I remember, it has a couple of other channels for non-English programming... right?).

I will, however, need an 18x24 (2) Dual LNB dish that will receive signals from the other two birds. Will the RCA that Best Buy serve the purpose, or is there something special about the Terk. From what I could tell, the RCA had a CM 2x4 distribution box on the back also. Is the Terk cheaper than the $99 RCA?

As far as the cordless phone trick goes, yeah, I used to have the same situation in my old house - a Dish 35 feet off the ground. When I built this current house, I got me some brains ;) and put my dish on the back porch, about 3 feet up off the ground... it's much more convenient to adjust!

I'm familiar with the oval dish and adjusting the 3 settings - I used to have the pre-cursor to DirecWay - in fact, I never took that dish down.

Hey, now that I'm thinking about it, could I use that oval, put on two Dual LNBs, add a distribution panel and be all set? Nah, forget it - the price of the Dual LNB plus a 2x4 distribution box would be more than the RCA dish with the distribution box. But, I do have the pole for the dish mounted and it's absolutely plumb - that'll save me about 15 minutes out in the freezing cold!

Thanks again for the help. This is going to come together well. We're having a Superbowl party, and it'll be a lot more fun watching it in 720p instead of 480i scaled!

Jon

[borghe]

here is what I've done to power two dual tunered tivos and 1 HD box:

Single oval dish. The dish came with the 4.5x4 multi-switch built into the arm. I removed that built in multi-switch, used a Sat "C" signal combiner up by the dish on one of the Sat "B" lines, and then ran the resultant 4 lines into the basement. Once in the basement I used a 5x8 multiswitch to distribute to a total of 8 possible receivers. IMHO it is the cleanest way to do it. The only thing to make sure if you do it this way is to connect the combined cable (Sat B/C cable) to I believe an 18V lead on the multi-switch, not a 13V one. Someone please correct if this is wrong (can't really check at home as the dish is on the second story roof and the multi-switch is in the basement). Only one dish on the roof and only 4 lines coming into the basement.

[Gregg Lengling]

Jon the Terks is more expensive...but I got it because I liked the idea that the multiswitch was out of the weather in the boom. And yes the 3rd bird is basically ShowtimeHD and the Spanish speaking channels but that could change as they add more HD programming. You can get the 3rd LNB for $30.00 or so.

[Steve Mann]

I have the same setup as borghe. Oval dish with the three LNBs. The third LNB is combined with Sat B and then all lines feed my 5x8 switch garage. This feeds my two DirecTivos and the HD receiver. Works well for me.

[JonC]

Borghe and Steve:

This combining satellite signals is new territory for me. I've seen the pieces for combining OTA and satellite signals - I assume that this is the same type of technology?

I apologize if I'm a little dense about this...
1) If I have a 3 LNB dish, I have a total of six wires, yes?

1a) And I'm going to take four of those wire signals and then combine them into two wires?

2) They must get split at the other end of the run. Is that done in the 5x8 box?

3) I assume that the 5x8 is 4 sattelite signals and 1 OTA - is that correct?

Geez, it sure is easier just to get signals OTA sometimes :rolleyes:

Steve - so, how much would it take to get you to give up your DirecTivos? ;)

Jon

[veyj]

For the 3rd LNB, call DirecTV and tell them you're thinking about adding Showtime HD and need the 3rd LNB. Let them know you will do the install yourself. They'll send it to you for the cost of shipping which was $8 in my case. You never know when they might add some more programming to that LNB.

John

[veyj]

Eric,

I'm pretty sure a B/C combiner came with the Sat "C" LNB kit. I did not use it. My Sat "C" LNB plugged right into the multiswitch which was in the arm/boom of the elliptical dish like Gregg had mentioned. I'll keep it in case I need to expand like you and Steve did.

John

[Gregg Lengling]

Combiner came with mine also..but likewise I didn't need to use it...it's in the garage should I need it for something new.

[Steve Mann]

Originally posted by JonC


I apologize if I'm a little dense about this...
1) If I have a 3 LNB dish, I have a total of six wires, yes?

Nope. Just for coming into the multi-switch. As others have said, the Sat C kit comes with a combiner that piggybacks it's signal on one of the exsiting feeds.


1a) And I'm going to take four of those wire signals and then combine them into two wires?

The only four wires you have will go to the four inputs on your 4x4 switch (or the 4 inputs on a 5x8 switch).


2) They must get split at the other end of the run. Is that done in the 5x8 box?

No, this is not necessary as each individual feed out of a 4x4 or 5x8 switch will go to one single input on a receiver.

3) I assume that the 5x8 is 4 sattelite signals and 1 OTA - is that correct?

Yes. That's what the fifth input is for; OTA.

Geez, it sure is easier just to get signals OTA sometimes :rolleyes:

I know exactly how you feel. :D

Steve - so, how much would it take to get you to give up your DirecTivos? ;)


It would take two HD DirecTiVos. You can look me up towards the end of the year when they're available. ;)

[borghe]

jonc - as Steve already said, with the oval dish you will just have four wires. You will use the signal combiner to combine the Sat "C" cable with one of the Sat "B" cablse. It MUST be the special combiner for the Sat "C" as it changes the frequencies that the transponders appear to be on. But as everyone has said, it comes with the Sat "C" kit.

You will then run those four wires into a 5x8 box. You are correct in that the fifth input is for an antenna. Usually then you will need an additional diplexer by the receiver to split the OTA signal from the sat signal. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet though is the fact that some HD boxes (all of the hughes based boxes) don't require the OTA signal split from the antenna signal. My Hughes box will take the satellite signal and OTA signal on the same cable and split it in the box.


My last suggestion is that anytime you do a satellite install, think about what the biggest configuration you may need will be. When I first moevd into my current place I only had my two DirecTivos, but I knew eventually I would be getting an HD box and I knew eventually I would that my father in-law in the upper would be getting satellite from the same setup.

I guess what I'm saying is that in todays satellite installations (and with the commonplace of DirecTivos), 4x4 switches are generally not enough anymore. You may want to look at a 5x8 right off the bat.

[JonC]

Again, thanks for the replies. This is pretty straight in my head now.

Is there anyone in town that handles the 5x8 switches?

Jon

[borghe]

I don't know anyone locally. I actually just bought mine off of ebay (usually much cheaper) and it has worked flawessly since...

ebay search results (http://cq-search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2 F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=5x8+multi*)

[Greg Oman]

Skywalker Communications in New Berlin lists a 5x8, may want to call ahead 262-786-5887. They list one by Pro Brand International, Eagle Aspen, about $82 it looks like. Model number PRO4180

Greg O.

[JonC]

Greg:

Thanks. I just called them and will be picking one up this afternoon.

I haven't hooked up the new dish yet, but I did get my receiver up and working. I primarily bought it for OTA right now, and was pleased to get digital from 4, 10, 12, and 58 right off the bat (and I'm in Sheboygan county!). The picture is outstanding - especially the football games yesterday.

FWIW - the $99 RCA dish I picked up at Best Buy has 3 LNBs, and the multi-switch is now built into the arm. No need for a Sat C kit anymore! :) I don't know if this changed recently, but I was pleasently surprised when I opened up the box for the dish!

Thanks to all for your help!

Jon

[borghe]

JonC - You are probably going to hate me for this.... :(

You can't use the built in multi-switch AND the 5x8 mutli-switch inline. You have to use one or the other. What will happen if you use them inline is you will lose all Sat "B" and "C" signals out of the 5x8. The satellite selection is controlled by outputting a 22Khz tone that standard multi-switches don't pass along. The selection normally happens in the multi-switch so there is no reason for them to pass the tone. The result is that you either are limited to only one multi-switch, or you have to buy a very expensive multi-switch that does pass through the 22Khz tone. When I say very expensive, it is usually around $200-400 for a 2x4 and upwards of $600 for a 5x8.

If you want to use the 5x8 multi-switch you will have to remove the built-in switch from the dish, combine the Sat "C" cable and a Sat "B" cable, and plug the resultant cable into an 18V input on the multi-switch. This is the only option. If you use the 4x4 switch built into the dish you will be limited to 4 lines that are able to see all birds.

[JonC]

Why would I hate you? You just saved me hours of frustration!

When I get to Skywalker, I'll ask them if they have the correct parts.

Thanks for the heads up!

Jon

[borghe]

Make sure along with the multi-switch that you get a Sat "C" combiner if you don't alerady have one. It'll look just like a normal cable splitter. It is needed to correctly combine the two signals into one.

[JonC]

I already have an 18" round dish that's feeding a 3x4 multi-switch.

I've purchased a 3 LNB Oval for use with the HDTV.

I don't mind having two dishes (as explained above, I already have a second dish that's not used anymore, but I haven't taken it down yet).

It seems to me that I should be able to
1) Use my current 3x4 to feed the four lines that I have - none of those receivers are HD and won't be for the near future. (Locals are on the main bird, and I won't be subscribing to spanish programming in the near future).
2) Use 2 of the four feeds that I have off of the new dish to feed a) the HD receiver and b) the other open receiver (I have a total of 6). I'll still have two more feeds that could be used for HD receivers sometime in the future.

That way, I can get by on the cheap (i.e. $0) for the time being. When I convert all of my receivers to HD in the future (probably another year or more away) I can look at getting a distribution system to handle all of this (and hopefully DirecTV hardware suppliers will have their act together and make this much simpler!)

All right, it's not elegant, but it seems to me that this should work... opinions?

Jon